Classi, Schwinn, munki and Ryoko with transcripts and your final pages, I'd have been truly lost.
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
I'd also like to thank Classi, Schwinn, Rysutoand Wulf, and ESPECIALLY you, Brian Bricker
Oi! Can none of you spell my name correctly?!
Anyways Bricker, so the Eric arc pittered out which would've led somewhere.
That's the thing that I kept coming back to, really. In the back of my head I kept expecting the name "Eric" to pop up somewhere.
Dammit...I knew i misspelled that when I posted it, I just cba to go back and figure out how the hell you spell your name!
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:09 am
Ryutso
Oh Bricker. A couple more questions:
-Who's golden ring was that?
-How'd you get the woman to play "Holly"? Surely you couldn't have told her "Come down to my basement, I'll tie you up, beat you and post pictures on the internet"?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:19 pm
BlackandBlue
krystyn
It was good that you spoke up, because it gave everyone a chance to discuss what our own opinions are on what we like and don't, and opened up a conversation on how to do a "for profit" while not making that the focus of the game. I know that I tend to stay away from/quit games that become obvious shilling attempts, but I will happily accept things like the Starbucks jonez I got off of I'm Sorry, because it was more subliminal and not the focused assault of marketing that got me to that point.
At the beginning of this, I know at least three posters (including me) assumed there was a tie-in with something. It's become so common a way for movies, books and TV shows to market themselves, that games sometimes seem to be split only into the two categories of 1) promotional and 2) homegrown.
As I said before, not all promotional games are bad. And it goes without saying that not all homegrown games are good, and vis a vis. ANY game that is good enough to keep a group of people interested and provides a good experience for those people is good for ARGs, IMO. If they can also make you crave Starbucks or want to visit an area, without feeling like you've been led into it like a lemming, then YAY for them!
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:11 pm
Wulf74
krystyn wrote:
Hey guys - I apologize for coming into the thread and poking and prodding like I did. It might have been better for me to have PM'd Kelvinator directly and told him how I felt about what he posted - although I don't really regret publicly voicing my dissent over what I felt he was asserting.
I am glad people had a good experience with this game, and I don't doubt for a minute that it was worthwhile for those who played. My quarrel was not at all with that feeling/reality, just so you know.
Anyway, carry on!
Thanks for the clarification . A lot of us really put a lot into this, including Brian. And it's just a knee jerk reaction to respond to something that felt like an attack. I can tell you how hard it was to keep my mouth shut at ARGfest with all of the bashing (my interpretation) that was going on. Thanks again
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:54 pm
krystyn
Hey guys - I apologize for coming into the thread and poking and prodding like I did. It might have been better for me to have PM'd Kelvinator directly and told him how I felt about what he posted - although I don't really regret publicly voicing my dissent over what I felt he was asserting.
I am glad people had a good experience with this game, and I don't doubt for a minute that it was worthwhile for those who played. My quarrel was not at all with that feeling/reality, just so you know.
Anyway, carry on!
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:24 pm
Ryutso
WHY AM I NOT GETTING EMAILS ABOUT THIS TOPIC?
Yeesh.
BlackandBlue wrote:
Classi, Schwinn, munki and Ryoko with transcripts and your final pages, I'd have been truly lost.
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
I'd also like to thank Classi, Schwinn, Rysutoand Wulf, and ESPECIALLY you, Brian Bricker
Oi! Can none of you spell my name correctly?!
Anyways Bricker, so the Eric arc pittered out which would've led somewhere.
That's the thing that I kept coming back to, really. In the back of my head I kept expecting the name "Eric" to pop up somewhere.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:00 pm
Kelvinator
The bottom line is that I never aimed to be controversial, didn't try to be "cutting edge," and didn't set out to push any boundaries. My sole intention with I'm Sorry was to tell a good story, introduce some characters that I loved, and create the type of game that I would want to play. That's the long and the short of it.
And...
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
It was the characters sending me PMs to admonish my bad behavior for asking that they not misuse the unfiction forums that made me really wish we had an "ignore" function for certain games, though.
After I clicked on your signature I thought - since the link oddly went to the forum search page - that you were tracking IP addresses or some other such covert IT operation and so I sent you the PM solely to connect the IP address that clicked on your signature to the in-game character. I'm bummed that a quick, paranoid reaction on my part made you dislike the game. Sorry about that. (I would have PM'd you this explanation, but my PM-ability was taken away quite some time ago and I haven't had much luck getting it restored. Go figure!)
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:10 pm
Wulf74
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
Wulf74 wrote:
I wish I had the time to do nothing but troll forums and cause problems.
Wow. flashback!
That's exactly how this game started and why I wanted nothing to do with it at the time.
It was the characters sending me PMs to admonish my bad behavior for asking that they not misuse the unfiction forums that made me really wish we had an "ignore" function for certain games, though.
I'm glad that you all could find something in it to appreciate, though.
It was a rough start - no doubt of that. And honestly it made it difficult to focus on the story, but I can honestly say that I'm glad I did. It was a great experience.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:23 pm
Rogi Ocnorb
Wulf74 wrote:
I wish I had the time to do nothing but troll forums and cause problems.
Wow. flashback!
That's exactly how this game started and why I wanted nothing to do with it at the time.
It was the characters sending me PMs to admonish my bad behavior for asking that they not misuse the unfiction forums that made me really wish we had an "ignore" function for certain games, though.
I'm glad that you all could find something in it to appreciate, though.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:06 pm
Wulf74
natas wrote:
lol...
krystyn's new UF handle is troll sherriff of poop town.
just kidding krystyn
rofl
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:59 pm
natas
lol...
krystyn's new UF handle is troll sherriff of poop town.
just kidding krystyn
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:49 pm
Wulf74
Kelvinator wrote:
krystyn wrote:
Kelvinator wrote:
And most of the big mARGketing companies create two-dimensional characters and puzzles for the sake of puzzles to promote some movie or to encourage goofy environmental activism. But now, if you gave a guy like me a team of people and a million dollars - holy cow what a FUN ride it would be! Forget about the movie tie-ins or the social conscience!
wtf
WTF indeed.
[edit to add...] Now before I am once again accused of pooping on anybody, let me be clear. I believe that the ARG platform is the future of entertainment and that the games themselves should be the product - not simply tools used to further an agenda, commercial (i.e., viral marketing) or social.
I don't believe you were the one doing the "pooping" there. Seems to me someone who just has a lot of time on their hands, and lots of criticism for other peoples statements/opinions. Not sure who named her "sheriff", I must've missed that memo.
I suppose some people really do subscribe to the sentiment I once heard from a cousin of mine:
Quote:
You're welcome to your opinion, even if you are wrong.
I wish I had the time to do nothing but troll forums and cause problems.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:44 pm
SteganosaurusRex
Ayn Rand?
You aren't some kind of extreme individual are you?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:04 am
classical
krystyn wrote:
But there are many, many people in this community who have been here (in this genre, at this site, participating in gaming) from the very beginning ... But the corporate disdain you employ comes off as a pretty facile platform to stand on at this point in time ...
Seniority does not automatically make one's experiences more valuable. FYI.
Though Brian is new to the PM role, it does not mean he's new to ARG. He deserves more than a round of applause not just for completing his game, but also for responding to what he sees in his research and his experiences in ARG through it. From what I understand, he saw a lack of ARGs that purely embraced the love of the game, so he created one that did, and did so successfully. It's one thing to kvetch and moan about the state of things; it's another thing entirely to do something about it.
Brian's point, though general, has weight. One that I will happily support with more specific examples if you really want to drag this one out. Though BlackandBlue has already provided us with some extremely insightful experiences on that note, which I appreciate a lot. I'm glad you shared 'em with us, man.
But hey, for what it's worth... in my own meager experience, here is what I've observed: few threads on uF have hit the ten-page mark without someone taking shots at what product the new trailhead is trying to promote. It appears that ARGers are naturally inclined to believe first in product placement, rather than think, "hey, maybe this game is simply for the sake of the game."
And that mentality, I feel, is the real byproduct of viral campaigning.
That all said, I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about viral campaigns and the like being bad. Different strokes for different folks, after all. A "good game" is a vague term and entirely relative experience to the singular player.
It's incredibly hard (impossible, maybe) to compare the "success" of a viral campaign with a movie tie-in to a homebrew that games for game's sake ... I mean, their goals for success are obivously different, or we wouldn't bother to differenciate between them, now would we?
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:19 am
BlackandBlue
Happy medium is possible
Kelvinator wrote:
krystyn wrote:
Kelvinator wrote:
And most of the big mARGketing companies create two-dimensional characters and puzzles for the sake of puzzles to promote some movie or to encourage goofy environmental activism. But now, if you gave a guy like me a team of people and a million dollars - holy cow what a FUN ride it would be! Forget about the movie tie-ins or the social conscience!
wtf
WTF indeed.
[edit to add...] Now before I am once again accused of pooping on anybody, let me be clear. I believe that the ARG platform is the future of entertainment and that the games themselves should be the product - not simply tools used to further an agenda, commercial (i.e., viral marketing) or social.
As for the two-dimensional characters and puzzles for the sake of puzzles bit, these seem to be the unfortunate byproducts of outside-agenda-driven projects and this is definitely not a unique sentiment - even on these forums.
Sorry for the long quote, but it helps keep track of the conversation, as I move into this post.
Having watched a lot of ARGs, PM'd one, researched more and played barely a handful, I have to say that there Brian makes a valid point to embracing this genre of entertainment "for the love of the game."
Even though the game I PM'd was definitely a publicity stunt for a movie, we didn't even mention the movie in the game, except for oblique references to 'fours' as they suited the storyline, which could subliminally lead players to possibly do a search that would lead to movie title, "The Four". We did not go into the ARG to "Sell" the movie. We did it as an experiment in not letting the movie marketing take over the soul of the game, while (hopefully) providing an engaging story line, some puzzles and lots of character interaction to make the game stand on its own as an entertainment.
What I'm saying, is that I agree with Brian's point: when many (not ALL, but many) professional marketers go into doing an ARG, they do so with the mindset of using it as a traditional selling tool for whatever the product is, that they are promoting. I was angry and upset when "Push, NV" devolved into ads for Toyota, and a means to get people to tune into the Super Bowl (like that "show" ever has problems with ratings?) It was a case where the game became secondary, or simply dissolved, because they don't get the immediate sales from it that they expected.
Here's what I come out of this ARG with: Whether it was intentional or not, I must say that I bought more Starbucks products during the course of this ARG than I would have otherwise. I am also looking more closely at a San Francisco based holiday in the near future, thanks to this game. Even though neither was the goal of Mr. Bricker in planning I'm Sorry (or was it? ), the subliminal aspects of marketing a product were there, while that was not the targeted goal of the game. I'm Sorry proved that doing it for the love of the game alone, doesn't make the ability to sell something as a by product of the game any less.
As a viral campaign with your company name and company website included prominently in the promotion is NOT a viral and tends to be dismissed as typical advertising, an ARG that constantly pushes the product (title/item/business name) into the forefront of the game is also not as likely to keep players interested.
[edited to remove too much personal history crap.]
. A lot of us really put a lot into this, including Brian. And it's just a knee jerk reaction to respond to something that felt like an attack. I can tell you how hard it was to keep my mouth shut at ARGfest with all of the bashing (my interpretation) that was going on. Thanks again 
(I would have PM'd you this explanation, but my PM-ability was taken away quite some time ago and I haven't had much luck getting it restored. Go figure!)