[petunia]

SPEC: I'm thinking the three steps in the ritual will give three vertices of a triangle, and it may be our job to predict the location of the third point and stop the ritual from being completed.

And that's all I gots for tonight.

[Coffeebean]

Sagittarius?

[mortality]

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

mortality wrote: Igor, can you explain how you arrive at helium? The symbol that we're calling "it" is the alchemical representation of water. But that doesn't make much sense in the context of the translation. So maybe the right word for that is just "elements"? Elements must be iron. Elements must attract. Elements must glow the color of the dying sun...? Ceres doesn't make sense as a replacement for the crossed crook. But maybe Ceres is a stand-in for gods, god-like, or powerful? I was talking about the radii drawing's similarities to modern graphical representations of elements, not the traditional (Triangular) alchemical representations of Earth, Wind Fire and Water, like some of the characters in the substitution part of the puzzle. Since there are only 2 points in the drawing, it'd have to be Helium (If that is the direction this was headed. Which I don't think it is.).

It's only He if we assume that the radii are critical. Couldn't the important thing be the ring number, which relates to how many times the ring can be divided? So if the 5/3 ratio that petunia noticed works for the ring number then the elements would be Beryllium and Boron. Which also make no sense.

[Rogi Ocnorb]

mortality wrote:

Igor, can you explain how you arrive at helium? The symbol that we're calling "it" is the alchemical representation of water. But that doesn't make much sense in the context of the translation. So maybe the right word for that is just "elements"? Elements must be iron. Elements must attract. Elements must glow the color of the dying sun...? Ceres doesn't make sense as a replacement for the crossed crook. But maybe Ceres is a stand-in for gods, god-like, or powerful?

I was talking about the radii drawing's similarities to modern graphical representations of elements, not the traditional (Triangular) alchemical representations of Earth, Wind Fire and Water, like some of the characters in the substitution part of the puzzle. Since there are only 2 points in the drawing, it'd have to be Helium (If that is the direction this was headed. Which I don't think it is.).

[mortality]

When it comes to ciphers and transcoded languages, anything's possible. Run with it. See where it takes you.

Guess the image still worked because of my internet cache. Here it is as an attachment.

[Coffeebean]

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /riddletools/images/alchemy/yields.png on this server
__________________________________________________

I have convinced myself that the Xx#xX puzzle is binary, but need help.
(hard to explain, but I will try).
Each letter = 8 digits made up of 0 and 1s only. (example: a = 01100001) (t= 01110100 T=01010100)

I am trying to put together a key that would represent the sixteen different possibilities of a four digit number, using X, x, & #.

example:
0000 = #
0101 = X
0110 = x
0011 =Xx
0111 =XX
1000 = xx

So, if that were the key (which it is clearly not, nor all of the possible combos) the first underlined word could look like this: X#xxxx,
0101(X)0000(#)0110(x)0110(x)0110(x)0110(x)
010100000110011001100110 = Pff
Does anyone think this is a possibility?

[mortality]

petunia wrote:

For those of us playing at home - Sebring is who, again? Are you talking about the crook & flail held by the crossed arms of pharoahs and Osiris? Anyway, the message does say there will be a "beacon". I don't see where the earth symbol is used...?

Sebring is Surfzoned.

I wasn't referring specifically to Osiris's symbol. I was thinking generally in case we could narrow it down. Osiris is as good a possibility as Ceres. Perhaps more applicable since Ceres is responsible for grain, whereas Osiris covers grain and the underworld.

I didn't mean to imply that each of the four symbols was used, so much as the author of the cipher used elemental symbols. It's also not quite as straightforward as that one image I provided. There are a couple different sets of symbols used to represent air, earth, water and fire. There are also more comprehensive sets of symbols that include the sun, moon, mercury, silver, gold, arsenic, etc.

Is this a match for the crook with a cross? It means: yields. Not sure that helps.

[petunia]

mortality wrote:

That's just cruel. Sebring's the person who likes cramped, handwritten hieroglyphs.

For those of us playing at home - Sebring is who, again?

mortality wrote:

It doesn't look like anyone compared the ratio of the radii, only a suggestion that they could relate to time or the hands of a clock. Do you know of any significance to that measurement? It's not the golden ratio, is it?

Close. 5/3 is 1.66666... The golden ratio is 1.6180339887... However it's reeeeeeally close, so the radii could be either one. Maybe the "5 to 3" in the text is meant to steer us away from the golden ratio and towards something like the Pythagorean theorem.

mortality wrote:

Maybe the verb for the slashed hook (doesn't that look like the symbol for a Greek or Egyptian god?) is "lifted." We're talking about a glowing object, maybe it lifts the darkness? Or pierces it?

Are you talking about the crook & flail held by the crossed arms of pharoahs and Osiris? Anyway, the message does say there will be a "beacon".

Quote:

ETA: I went to go look up the symbols for the gods in case the crossed hook was one. Instead I noticed that the four symbols of the elements were used in that cipher.

I don't see where the earth symbol is used...?

[mortality]

Igor, can you explain how you arrive at helium?

The symbol that we're calling "it" is the alchemical representation of water. But that doesn't make much sense in the context of the translation. So maybe the right word for that is just "elements"? Elements must be iron. Elements must attract. Elements must glow the color of the dying sun...?

Ceres doesn't make sense as a replacement for the crossed crook. But maybe Ceres is a stand-in for gods, god-like, or powerful?

[WolfHawk]

petunia wrote:

casablanca wrote: I guess this is pretty obvious, but since the 9th was the new moon that probably means that what Sandra saw was one of the three sub-rituals that the document describes. Is there any way to determine which one it was? I'll assume it was the first... but I'm not 100% about the second being one month later. Probably is, it's just kinda vague.

It won't be exactly one month later it will be on the next new moon which is about 29 days.

Coffeebean wrote:

here is my version: It must be iron. It must attract. It must glow the color of the dying sun. Five to three is the rule to *ll (hell) The first is when the night is black <<<<< First new moon, presumably that on 12/9/07 at a place of power. The second one, upon the next, <<<<< Second new moon, on 1/8/08 one league along the path. The last upon the black night, following <<<<< Third, or final new moon of the ritual on 2/2/08 the rule, prepares the place. In all, the greater must pont true. In each, the blackness will be ***. (this) Prepare to fear. If all is done in accordance, the glow at draw of the shaped iron will be a beacon for *********.

Bold type is mine.

[Rogi Ocnorb]

If we were looking at elements, the best I could suggest would be Helium. But that'd a poor representation of Helium.

[mortality]

From the horagram site igor linked to

Quote:

Horagrams are diagrams consisting of concentric circles crossed by a set of radial lines. Fortified by 8 essential vitamins and minerals.

Sounds alchemical, which fits. Maybe the author only used part of the horagram? What would that mean? Some specific combination of the vitamins and minerals?

The ritual didn't mention sound, so maybe it's not the contemporary musical meaning?

[Rogi Ocnorb]

mortality wrote:

It doesn't look like anyone compared the ratio of the radii, only a suggestion that they could relate to time or the hands of a clock. Do you know of any significance to that measurement? It's not the golden ratio, is it?

There is a subset of music theory that addresses scales and their relation to the Golden Ratio. And one of the ways to represent these relationships is with a diagram known as a horagram.

Not exactly what we're seeing here, but close.

[mortality]

Coffeebean wrote:

The other hook symbol (same shape with line through it): "In each, the blackness will be *?*" I agree that it's unimportant to know how Sandra got to WF, but it is important to note that she is in-game because she would not have found that site otherwise. Anyways, she definitely had to leave an IP number or email when leaving a comment there....so I think she was provided for a reason, and we should use her to gain information. Can someone send me ethan's blog address? (yes i'm too lazy to look through all the old posts) *taking notes in shorthand so mort has to decipher them later

That's just cruel. Sebring's the person who likes cramped, handwritten hieroglyphs.

petunia wrote:

Somebody named "ogoun" commented to Sandra, but it kinda sounds like one of us...? I hope Sandra's not a one-shot deal... I hope Ethan gets sent down to investigate and/or hooks up with InQuest: That would be SWEEEEET. I say we try to get Sandra's email from WCF, as she's our only human clue. Then of course there is the possibility that whatever happened to her may have lasting effects. Interesting how the two hook symbols seem to relate. The plain hook is used during the ritual, and "in each the blackness will be (slashed hook)". Er. Okay, at first I thought there was a before/after connection, like the hook would become a slashed hook, but it doesn't necessarily read that way. This is what happens when we have a cookie party at work and I don't get any afternoon caffeine... I'm getting an idea about a triangle, but my brain's not up to it yet. :coffee EDIT2: Sorry if this is old news, but has anyone noticed that the ratio of the radii of the OC:0702 diagram is 5 to 3?

Ogoun's comment is why I love the Internet. Whenever someone acts earnest, someone else comes along to piss on it. With ennui. (Cf. any YouTube video's comment page)

I'm pretty sure WF has some way of reaching anyone who posts on their site. They shouldn't have to canvass door-to-door. (In FL, that's especially dangerous; they might get shot when someone thinks they're campaigning for Hillary.)

It doesn't look like anyone compared the ratio of the radii, only a suggestion that they could relate to time or the hands of a clock. Do you know of any significance to that measurement? It's not the golden ratio, is it?

Maybe the verb for the slashed hook (doesn't that look like the symbol for a Greek or Egyptian god?) is "lifted." We're talking about a glowing object, maybe it lifts the darkness? Or pierces it?

ETA: I went to go look up the symbols for the gods in case the crossed hook was one. Instead I noticed that the four symbols of the elements were used in that cipher.

Figured out the right search for them: alchemical or astronomical symbols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_symbols

There are more symbols available through Google Image Search. It looks closest to Ceres' symbol, but it's not a match.

Just a reminder: they aren't kidding when they say this is an open game. I know that one of the people at Djinn has linked to the Open Cases site on his DeviantArt page. So some of the people who browse WF's files won't be aware or familiar with unFiction.

0701:
While we're talking about Simson Lines, and since alchemy has come up in the other case, what about the alchemical "squared circle" as a possible solution? Maybe the lines from the square indicate the letters we need from MSG3?

[petunia]

http://ethangrant.wordpress.com/ EDIT: Somebody named "ogoun" commented to Sandra, but it kinda sounds like one of us...?

I hope Sandra's not a one-shot deal... I hope Ethan gets sent down to investigate and/or hooks up with InQuest:

mortality wrote:

(...) Take some video, some still photos, interview Sandra and generally poke about.

That would be SWEEEEET. I say we try to get Sandra's email from WCF, as she's our only human clue. Then of course there is the possibility that whatever happened to her may have lasting effects.

Interesting how the two hook symbols seem to relate. The plain hook is used during the ritual, and "in each the blackness will be (slashed hook)".
Er. Okay, at first I thought there was a before/after connection, like the hook would become a slashed hook, but it doesn't necessarily read that way. This is what happens when we have a cookie party at work and I don't get any afternoon caffeine...

I'm getting an idea about a triangle, but my brain's not up to it yet. :coffee

EDIT2: Sorry if this is old news, but has anyone noticed that the ratio of the radii of the OC:0702 diagram is 5 to 3?