ARG: Acheron-Responses

Phillip Vector is a hoax - see Interaction section for more

TheCreator@forums.unfiction.com — Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:14:23 +0000

Maybe someone should create a list of these offenders.

Time to archive?

addlepated@forums.unfiction.com — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:36:49 +0000

Yep, I think so. It's gonna take an admin to do it, though. Can it be smushed down to one link that opens a page containing all the Acheron forums, to save space?

Time to archive?

addlepated@forums.unfiction.com — Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:09:13 +0000

Mods, is it time to archive?

I'm not a Mod, but there hasn't been anymore messages in this section since Feb. 26. I think it is time.

Time to archive?

addlepated@forums.unfiction.com — Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:49:16 +0000

Mods, is it time to archive?

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:28:35 +0000

Here's my suggestions for improving the experience for new players or latecomers to a game:

1. Message boards don't work for archiving knowledge or information. We need a separate file area or news area where things can be put.
....

4. A news section, where upcoming realtime events are posted.

I guess you didn't know about this: http://www.collectivedetective.org/campaign/l3/evidence/
I believe it addresses all your 4 points.

During the game, I updated that trail/guide everyday

I was going to tell you about Collective detective as well, but GB did a much better job of it.

as to point #4, announcements: If you check the interactions section, any time we learned about a meeting (Chat and such) Someone (sometimes me, sometimes others) would post a message about in Interaction which is the correct place for those things. Some of the characters we had to play catch as catch can, because we were never informed when Reggie would be available. When we did see him, we tried to get as many people who we could locate on line (IRC, AIM, YIM) because chances were by the time we get a message on the boards, he'd be gone. The few IRC meetings were announced, *when we knew about them in advance.* If you missed them, well, sorry, I missed a few of Reggie's first appearances too. He tended to show up after I went to bed or was going to bed.

A real life example might be New Years Eve parties, you maybe going to two or three of them and at the second stop you find out a friend you would have liked to talk with and catch up left 15 minutes before you arrived. Oh well, that's life. If you e-mailed any of the characters you should have gotten at least 1 response. I got replies from Meg, long before Addlepated took over handling that character. There were to the best of my knowledge only two Phone calls made, one by Caretaker to Jamesi when he solved the "Journey" puzzle ("You are Trusted") and one to me, by Reggie's co owners of Cypher-systems, which ended up going no where due to the computer crash. We included everything we learned here, or at Collective detective, I attempted to update the Wiki Trail when I had time.
Sometimes, just like in real life, you have to read the newspaper or watch TV to get the latest news.

If you feel you didn't get enough direct participation this time, just wait a few, there will be another ARG coming, and maybe it will be able to meet your demands better.

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:51:35 +0000

Here's my suggestions for improving the experience for new players or latecomers to a game:

1. Message boards don't work for archiving knowledge or information. We need a separate file area or news area where things can be put.

2. In the filearea, things like images, screenshots, logs, etc. need to include reference to the following information:

- where they came from or how they were found (e.g.: "url for image link found from cracking the code on page x", for example

- Where it led the player to.

3. A list of currently unsolved puzzles or unresolved leads.

4. A news section, where upcoming realtime events are posted.

I guess you didn't know about this: http://www.collectivedetective.org/campaign/l3/evidence/
I believe it addresses all your 4 points.

During the game, I updated that trail/guide everyday (sometimes on a "as it happens" basis if I wasn't racking my brains on a puzzle) and let me tell ya, it takes just as long (if not longer) to maintain such a trail/guide than playing the actual game. But as a lot people in chat know, I have more time on my hands than most people :wink:

EDIT: There were also
http://acheron.addlepated.net/ (by addlepated)
http://www.mssv.net/gamewiki.cgi?LandauLuckmanLake (by magesteff)
http://acheron.netninja.com/ (by BrianEnigma)
(but as far as I know, the one I maintained was the only one updated all the way to the endgame - like I said, lots of time on my hands) :)

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:43:27 +0000

Sounds like you'd appreciate a Guide, such as Adrian Hon's Beast Guide or Steve Peters' LockJaw Guide. Those are the best examples I personally have seen to quickly get up to speed and/or find information you might have missed.

Problem with writing a Guide is it's a huge investment of time, but very much appreciated by both players and PMs.

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:49:29 +0000

THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL AND HAVE YOU TRIED WENDY'S NEW CHICKEN SANDWICHES?

The real time aspect was actually cool, the problem was that it was sometimes real time, and then static for days at a time. My problem was that the game moved at the pace of the message boards. In other words, when a puzzle got solved here in the forums, it triggered the realtime change in the sites, etc. Therefore, reading the forums was not just helpful in playing the game (like it was with the Beast), it became a necessity.

Rose, I did get your PM, eventaully, but a week or 10 days after you sent it. I couldn't check the boards every day.

Here's my suggestions for improving the experience for new players or latecomers to a game:

1. Message boards don't work for archiving knowledge or information. We need a separate file area or news area where things can be put.

2. In the filearea, things like images, screenshots, logs, etc. need to include reference to the following information:

- where they came from or how they were found (e.g.: "url for image link found from cracking the code on page x", for example

- Where it led the player to.

3. A list of currently unsolved puzzles or unresolved leads.

4. A news section, where upcoming realtime events are posted.

I think that this site (unfiction) was originally designed with this in mind, but the site appears to have fallen into disrepair (the same goes for deaddrop.us).

I have some mad programming and database skills and could probably put a site together if anyone wants to help.

Here are my suggestions for improving the ARG games themselves:

1. Decide what you want to be ahead of time. Do you want to be a real time game with heavy character player live interaction, or do you want to be more static/puzzle/hacker oriented, where all of the pages are loaded onto the web at the beginning, but they can't only be found by cracking login codes etc.

2. Come up with a plan and timeline for how you want the game to unfold and what you are going to to if players get stuck somewhere for longer than you expect.

3. ARG's are stories, like novels and movies but are just told in a different way. The techniques of storytelling apply here too. So there should be foreshadowing, clues very early on about puzzles that only arise much later on, etc. A problem I found with Acheron was that it seemed like they were making up the story as they went along. IT was technology and time trvel, and then it was physics and ley lines, then indian mythology, and then the devil. This would have been fine if there was some reference to any of this at the beginning. And the reference could have been simple, like a browser history file showing that jake browed certain sites. Yes, I remember the seemingly random listing of sites in the beginning of the game, but those sites related to everything, which meant they related to nothing.

I'm not saying that the game sucked, it didn't. If I thought that I wouldn't be wriiting any of this. It was clearly a lot of hard work, and it sure is easier to criticize after the fact (and fun too!) than to make something on of my own.

Email me at pastabagel@hotmail.com

THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL

[/list]

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:38:49 +0000

HEY PASTABAGEL- did you ever get my PM or email from a while ago?

Listen, I was glued to the Acheron board and living in the chat room so I have no perspective on what it was like to play the game outside of these supports.

How can we fix the problems you encountered?

My only ideas about improving the player's experience don't really address your concerns. FYI so far they are:

1. Add a section for spec about plot and characters to the board, taking it out of the general section, which I personally find sometimes gets too crowded. The general section would still cover news, new sites,etc. There will always be some overlap among puzzles, interactions, spec and general, but as long as threads are linked it should work.

The section would work similarly to the puzzles section. This way people may feel more comfortable posting spec about characters and events. One example, in Acheron I never understood what 1.jpg and seek. jpg were telling us. (It turns out that 1.jpg was a doodle that lead us to 2.jpg.) I think if there were a "spec" section, I could have posted there asking people what they thought about these. This way ideas flow outside the chat room.

2. I am drafting a very basic player's guide for new players, like me, to help them avoid the many errors I made along the way. I hope this can supplement the great information that is already posted about solving puzzles.
For example, some people playing chess with Reggie didn't record the game or take notes on the conversations, simply because they didn't think about it. My favorite bit of advice: if you get a character's YIM, contact them!!! Dammit.

What can we do to help everyone play the game more effectively? (I admit I have a personal stake in this. My ability to spend so much time here was an accident of circumstances in my RL and I simply won't be able to do this for the next one.)

PASTA: PM me here if you want.

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:44:57 +0000

I agree with guest. One of the hardest things to give and take well in life is criticism. I find it best to point out all that was good and worked first. Then, as Sunny suggests, give reasons why you think things didn't work and ideas as to how it might work better next time.

Lets face it. If we didn't like this stuff we wouldn't be here so lets try and work together so that it gets better each time.

Final thought. If you don't like the way a free ARG is run, demand your money back. :wink:

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:39:19 +0000

The only alternative to coexistence is codestruction......

The thing is....everyone will have their own personal opinions and views on whether or not this and other things/methods work. Someone will always feel it's always okay, some will always feel it's never okay, and some will feel it's okay under certain circumstances.

Nature of The Beast, can't please everyone and all that jazz...

I think constructive feedback is important from all viewpoints with any style of ARG, with well organized thoughts and reasons for those thoughts. It can only serve to better the next game to have your finger on the pulse of the players. For instance if 95% of people somehow did feel put out by some twist on the generally accepted method of delivery....then PMs would probably take that to heart and not venture that route the next time around.

That being said, I think it would be hard to cull and use that information if people were afraid to post an opinion for fear that it would be in the minority or get attacked.

And if the opinion they post is biting or accusatory rather than constructive, then arguments break out and nothing gets accomplished.

Maybe we can just watch the manner in which our opinions are posted.
And maybe we can try not to take things too personally, it is just an opinion after all.

I dunno, I'm not trying to get in the middle of something but if we have a criticism of something in an ARG, maybe we can post in such a way as to say:

"I didn't really care for this aspect because it made me feel like ?blank?. Did anyone else feel the same? Maybe next time...." r

Rather than:

"You did ?blank? and it sucked big time."

Sorry....just trying to broker some peace.

Well put, Well said, Well spoken

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Wed, 25 Feb 2004 04:47:04 +0000

The only alternative to coexistence is codestruction......

The thing is....everyone will have their own personal opinions and views on whether or not this and other things/methods work. Someone will always feel it's always okay, some will always feel it's never okay, and some will feel it's okay under certain circumstances.

Nature of The Beast, can't please everyone and all that jazz...

I think constructive feedback is important from all viewpoints with any style of ARG, with well organized thoughts and reasons for those thoughts. It can only serve to better the next game to have your finger on the pulse of the players. For instance if 95% of people somehow did feel put out by some twist on the generally accepted method of delivery....then PMs would probably take that to heart and not venture that route the next time around.

That being said, I think it would be hard to cull and use that information if people were afraid to post an opinion for fear that it would be in the minority or get attacked.

And if the opinion they post is biting or accusatory rather than constructive, then arguments break out and nothing gets accomplished.

Maybe we can just watch the manner in which our opinions are posted.
And maybe we can try not to take things too personally, it is just an opinion after all.

I dunno, I'm not trying to get in the middle of something but if we have a criticism of something in an ARG, maybe we can post in such a way as to say:

"I didn't really care for this aspect because it made me feel like ?blank?. Did anyone else feel the same? Maybe next time...." r

Rather than:

"You did ?blank? and it sucked big time."

Sorry....just trying to broker some peace.

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:28:42 +0000

It was luck of the draw I got a badge for Acheron (and thank you ever so much Scrappy I still have it in a safe and secure place),

Heh! No problem! But to clarify - I merely designed the badges... The Intrepid Billski had them made and got them to the Argfest - so the props really go more to him than I. You're welcome, nonetheless ;)

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:49:27 +0000

What I mean is that Acheron was unplayable if you didn't read the forums. There were too many insiders driving the pace at which community solved the puzzles, and participated in chats and emails, that I could not solve the puzzles on my own. Something would happen to change the game, like a new IRC chat that I didn't know about etc.

Um... It appears to me that is also what happened in CTW, perhaps not in the manner it happened in Acheron, but a similar complaint could be made as such. I could for instance say, that, because several people discovered and solved puzzles while I slept, it left me out of the game.
Chat information was posted to forums to make it accessible to everyone, and not just the few individuals who were present.

In the spirit of TINAG, do you complain to the police when there is an accident on the road that prevents you from reaching an appointment on time? No. You either look for a different route, or you stick it out in gridlock. It was my understanding that things like the Beast and LockJaw encouraged people to work together to solve situations faster than they could alone. There are also plenty of places where you can solve things on your own (points out JMX stages 1-6, Riddleplanet, etc) that if that is more your cup of tea then, there ya go. But don't complain that just because you couldn't participate in chat that you couldn't play. Of the PM's I knew of During the game, and the PMs I learned about after the game, not one of them had an influence on the speed or puzzle solving. How do I know this?
1.) Look how frickin' long it took us to solve the &^%$#@*& Orb.jpg puzzle. Do you think that if I was the figgin' PM I would have given out better hints in the forum?
2.) The Game of Life puzzle was still unsolved at the end of the game (which contained a very large clue in it, the picture of Jake). Niether I, nor Addlepated, nor Sin Vraal knew this piece of information.
3.) Yeah, Katyao2032, Dashcat and I kicked around the idea that maybe all was not kosher with Jake, but we did it based on a comment he made in chat (which had we found the answer to the game of Life sooner would have made more sense). In the end, did it affect the choices people made? Nope. We all had some misgivings but in the end we set ourselves up for the fall.
4.) I talk alot. I talked alot on CTW and I talked a lot here, most of it well before I became someone who did a subcontract for the PM's to be used at their discretion not mine.

5.) If given the opportunity to give an occasional assist to the PM's of future games and be allowed to continue as a player, I will. If I feel that the PM's had to share too much information with me then I would withdraw from the game, because then it would not be fair. I had no more information than you where it came to puzzle solutions, and twists in the plot.

BTW: I did not get any swag items in Chasing the wish, which had several items. It was luck of the draw I got a badge for Acheron (and thank you ever so much Scrappy I still have it in a safe and secure place), which didn't get used as near as much as it was intended to be used.

My name is Magesteff, please do not tar me with that brush. I did nothing to deserve it. This time, or any other time.

Explaining Myself

MageSteff@forums.unfiction.com — Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:48:17 +0000

Ahh ok. That makes me feel like a dork for my previous posting.

I've always wanted to do an ARG that was truly real time. Just becuase it would make it much more interesting to players to see someone get online after they got home from work or got online from a internet cafe while talking about what was going on around them real time.

Certainly just another flavor of ARG coming out of the woodwork.

LC