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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Black Puzzle Cards
[SOLVED] #219 Black - The Master of Secrets
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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buff
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 106

 		I'm impressed. Really great job solving that!

My hat's off to you...
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:34 am
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beanoł
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Joined: 24 Oct 2004
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Location: Liverpool Docks

 		[ALTERNATE-SOLVE] #219 Black - The Master of Secrets
Hello folks,

It's not normal for there to be an alternative solve I'm sure. Allow me to explain how I came across this...(Translation of the glyphs follows)

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I am one revered by the King,
I am one beloved of my father,
I was educated at the ford of the bull (Oxford),
I have written many books about the writings of Ancient Egypt,
I made flourish the words of Egypt,
I made the plants and the trees grow,
I am a scribe whose fingers are excellent,
I am a gardener who is green of his finger,
What is my name?


...my friend is researching at Liverpool University when I told her there were glyphs involved in a puzzle she ended up taking a look but she couldn't solve it as quickly as it was solved here on the forums. So she went on to translate it herself.

The translation above is what was worked out on an average Friday night in a Liverpool watering hole by Sarah Burns, BA, MA of The University of Liverpool and with help from a friend of hers who lectures at the university callled Glenn Godenho. God knows if he's got letters but I guess he has.

These two believe the answer to this is...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
We think it is Sir Alan Gardiner, Very famous Egyptologist who wrote on the grammar, therefore the 'writings of Egypt'. He was educated at Oxford and is knighted therefore revered by the King. Also, obviously the gardener. The Oxford, ford of the bull, has always been a egyptology joke.


Sarah will be back online tonight with a full graphical transliteration. She has said the following though on the present solve and the previous one.

Quote:
Sarah says:
I've looked at the transliteration and can see why people got it wrong. It isn't that easy. Can see why she thinks its the Nile. Do you want our transliteration aswell? Shows why it's more correct, cos of the grammar.

Beanoł says:
Yeah that sounds like a plan. It'll be interesting to the other players

Sarah says:
Ok, will take a bit longer.

Beanoł says:
Cool!

Sarah says:
Cool. glad i could help. My mate glen helped and he is one of the best translators I know. Is lecturing at the mo and was the one who realised the Oxford link

Beanoł says:
Nice

Sarah says says:
Your friend has translated some of the signs as what they actually represent rather than finding the words for them. Good job for her tho.

Sarah says:
Am off to asda. will email it later if thats ok.

Beanoł says:
Cool

Sarah says:
Also can even write it as it should be spoken if you like. lol... showing off now

Beanoł says:
Go for your life if you want

Sarah says:
I will email it at 9 at latest. prob earlier

Beanoł says:
Niceone laters


And that's as much as I know for now. Will update later. Now I need another pint, it's been a hectic day...by the way Sarah is off to Egypt, ironically in the morning that is why I am making these posts and not her. If anyone has any questions for her, better PM me them before 9pm tonight so we can get em answered, I am already gonna ask if there was anything odd in the translation that might lead to another kloo....

EDIT @ 9.15 After being sent on a hunt for kloo's the first google web search finds this...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The real mystery of the IV Dynasty is not so much how Khufu could have built his pyramid on such a scale but how his father, Seneferu, could, apparently, have done three of them nearly as big, one at Meidum and two at Dahshur, all within sight of each other. The pyramid at Meidum was begun as a step pyramid, perhaps by Huni of the III Dynasty (although evidence of this is missing, Huni is usually credited with a long enough reign to have completed a large pyramid), but was then certainly finished as a true pyramid, with the steps filled in, by Seneferu. Why this was done is a good question, but one thing for certain is that it as not done well. The structure was unstable. At some point the outer parts actually collapsed, leaving the core looking rather like a huge cube. The first pyramid at Dahshur, the "Bent Pyramid," was then begun as a true pyramid from scratch, but it too had stability problems, and had to be finished with a flattened top. The full mastery of the medium then appears in the third pyramid, with a good foundation, larger blocks, and successful completion. The whole technique of truly large scale construction thus rapidly evolved in just one reign. Seneferu seems to have had money to spend, time to spare (in 24 some years), and a very clear end in mind. A shame he can't tell us about it.


Sarah's email...

Sarah Burns wrote:
Ok, here it is. Both attachments are self explanatory. Here is a web address for a small biography of Alan Gardiner: http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/information/biography/fghij/gardiner_alan.html



Reasons he is the answer:



He was 'revered by the King' by having a knighthood

He was 'beloved of his father' as his father paid for every thing, he never needed to work,

He was educated at Queens College, Oxford,

He wrote about the writings of Egypt,

He 'made flourish the words of Egypt' by writing books that helped people learn Egyptian grammar,

His name was Gardiner, he wasn't a gardener!



Hope it all helps!



Sarah Burns, BA (Hons) Arch, MA Egyptology, current PhD student J



By the way, Margaret Maitland, whose name appears at the top of the card, is at the University of Toronto studying in the department of Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations.


Okay so who's gonna email Margaret Maitland?

Graphics Transliteration here

Spoken word here
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:48 pm
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Salkunh
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Joined: 10 Oct 2004
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 		my transliteration is (bar missing out 1 word) exactly the same but instead of writing it out conventionally I wrote it in computer standard
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:58 pm
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Salkunh
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 		Re: [ALTERNATE-SOLVE] #219 Black - The Master of Secrets
beanoł wrote:
Sarah says says:
Your friend has translated some of the signs as what they actually represent rather than finding the words for them.


also beano tell sarah no i didnt i looked up the words i didnt know in faulkner's dictionary
_________________
Ford: You sure it'll do enough damage?
McKay: Ever see a 20-kiloton nuclear explosion?
Sheppard: I have.
(Everyone looks at him.)
Sheppard: Not up close.

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:00 pm
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beanoł
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Joined: 24 Oct 2004
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Location: Liverpool Docks

 		This isn't judged as anyones work this is a judgement of the gyphs that MC have released and not more specifically a judgement of you. If she has made subjective observations, such as that you post of Jo, then it is not her fault it is mearly how she has related to me.

You were made aware of a possible alternative solve before this post giving you the opportunity to contribute towards it means you shouldn't be taking this personally as you did not 'come aboard'.

The information here is gathered from chat logs and that's all it is. There is no tone in the text and you are not expected to interperate anything as a 'dig' here it's just critism of alternatives to justify what could be something else.

I have only posted in the way I did as a means to collaborate all possible information at one time. That's what I do. I don't post much because all I think is spec and spec is bad enough at 3am whilst I scratch my head over this foresaken game. This is more spec but like your original post it has foundation and so it has been posted to be talked about as it might be the solve. But whatever anyone wants to subscribe to, this is just a puzzle after all?

Sarah appologises but she would have signed up and posted this herself but as I say she is off to Egypt in the morning for a dig. So I have collected the data and made the post. She was very excited about the writting and commented to the fact that she was intrigued where this came from naturally she is even more excited as to who wrote this and the grammar they have used in the glyphs. It seemed fair that it be posted in the way it was communicated to me.

Sarah is reading these forums before she goes and she is honestly sorry if what I have put across seems to be judging you but it's not. Besides I have talked to you about Sarah before and you have spoke with her and her boyfriend and you know she means no harm.
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Backrollingł into the afterlife...roll around the floor, SPEC!!

< ^BonoVox^> From the forum: Cube player at Ar holds up message to webcam: "Dinah, bring beer we are parched"

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:31 pm
Last edited by beanoł on Sat May 07, 2005 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lordtoke
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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 		Chill out Honey
No offence was meant. How many other people on the planet would of even had a clue Smile

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:34 pm
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NovacaineX
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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 		Great solve. I think this translation makes a lot more sense. Good work Sarah Smile

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 10:16 pm
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jbd
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 		I believe the moral of the story here is to be careful with the silver and blacks. Maybe we'll see the return of the 3D cryptic crossword in Latin. Wink

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 6:38 am
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beanoł
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 		I doubt it's the last time we realise how complex some puzzles are Sad
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Backrollingł into the afterlife...roll around the floor, SPEC!!

< ^BonoVox^> From the forum: Cube player at Ar holds up message to webcam: "Dinah, bring beer we are parched"

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:01 am
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NovacaineX
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Quote:
3D cryptic crossword in Latin


Now that sounds like a challenge!

Bring it on! Very Happy

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:32 am
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Rob_Riv
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NovacaineX wrote:
Quote:
3D cryptic crossword in Latin


Now that sounds like a challenge!

Bring it on! Very Happy


... you're just asking for trouble
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 3:39 pm
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jbd
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NovacaineX wrote:
Quote:
3D cryptic crossword in Latin


Now that sounds like a challenge!

Bring it on! Very Happy


I was referencing Timehunt which had an actual one of these. I stayed up with friends overnight (like 6 hours) to crack it. Whee!

I fixed up the wiki with the solve, hope y'all don't mind.

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 7:40 pm
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[PCGF]dbarnett
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Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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jbd wrote:
I believe the moral of the story here is to be careful with the silver and blacks. Maybe we'll see the return of the 3D cryptic crossword in Latin. Wink

*looks around*dont give the PMs ideas!
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:28 pm
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Kirjava
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 		Cool solve! And bring on the Latin!

Here's a picture of that suggestively-shaped pyramid that Beano mentioned:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/meidump12.jpg

Pretty neat, but I'm not sure there's any connection. Somehow I think PMs would get in trouble if they expected us to dig up an ancient historical monument to get the Cube!

Poor Egyptians- their brilliant achievements claimed for the aliens and now even the Cubists! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:13 pm
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invfish
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Salkunh wrote:
my transliteration is (bar missing out 1 word) exactly the same but instead of writing it out conventionally I wrote it in computer standard


Hi Salkunh.. Im a little confused. Are you saying your transcription is incorrect and it should read as the new one?

I have a feeling that the true intrepretation is somwhere in the middle of the two. Mainly because of the 4th line. In the newer interpretation it doesn't seem to resemble a riddle as the rest of the lines do. As for your interpretation the 4th line is more of a riddle.

In both cases The River Nile could still be the answer. Why? because Alan Gardiner did not make the plants and the trees grow. Also, I am going with your interpretation of line 4 - papyrus wouldn't of existed without the Nile.

I have another theory tho:

I am putting spoilers over these just incase that it is on the right track, or a solve.

There are two things though that I am uncertain on.. scribe of his finger

The Instruction of Amenemope wrote:


Chapter 15

Do well, and you will attain influence.
Do not dip (your) reed against the one who sins.
The beak of the Ibis is the finger of the scribe;
Take care not to disturb it;
The Ape (Thoth) rests (in) the temple of Khmun,
While his eye travels around the Two Lands;
If he sees one who sins with his finger (that is, a false scribe),
he takes away his provisions by the flood.
As for a scribe who sins with his finger,
His son shall not be enrolled.



would refer to:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Thoth: http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/thoth.htm.
Except I can only find texts that suggest he was a scribe and nothing more (doesn't seem to have attributed to plant life). He also wrote the secrets of secrets which would go with the cards name. I woudl rule him out though because of the fact that he didn't attribute to plant growth.


That was the first thing.

The second thing is the answer to the card could be who the Egyptians believed to be the God of the River Nile :

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
'Hapi'http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/hapi.htm. He is the personification of the Nile. So if the scribe references within the riddle refer to papyrus fact then the answer could be Hapi.


The only other answer that the interpretation could be is:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
'Hu' - http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/hu.htm
Who seems to fit all the answers of the riddle. Hu was seen as a creator and also the word of God. Also, it add's a nice twist to the "who/what is my name?"


If there is any reason why you think it could not be the last option. Please let me know why.

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:47 am
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