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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: General/Updates
[QUESTION] How does the Academy Study Earth?
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erekose
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Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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Location: A maze of winding passages, all alike

It would be my guess that a wormhole (technically, Einstien-Rosen bridge)
would be used to transport matter between the two worlds. Unfortunately, while this is probably theoretically possible, it requires some rather large scale projects (like a particle accelerator the size of earths orbit around the sun) as well as something called negative energy (not to be confused with dark energy) that is rather hard to replicate practically with an earth based civilisation. There is also the issue of navigation to consider, although given that they already have contact with earth, that problem is probably solved.

As for how they currently communicating with us, I would suggest some form of quantum entanglement between two particles from seperate universes. by changing a property called 'spin' of one particle from up to down, the spin of the other particle instatly changes from down to up, no matter how far seperated the two objects are. By setting a value of 1 to 'up' spin and 0 to 'down' spin and continually changing them you could set up a binary communication system.

For anyone who finds this post utterly incomprehensible, I would recommend the book Hyperspace by Michio Kaku.
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You have dreamed too well, O wise archdreamer, for you have drawn dream's gods away from the world of all men's vision to that which is wholly yours-H.P Lovecraft


PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:50 pm
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Violet
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You guys definitely have to help me out a little with things like this, (I know very little about this sort of thing) but if they have access to a wormhole of some sort, wouldn't it be a two-way thing? Plus, I'm not sure how easy it is to hide such time-space portals, if the Academy were covering-up something.

first I overdose of inverted commas, then yanka gets liberal with the smilies, now I'm hyphen-mad (ohmigod I just can't stop!!!)

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:39 am
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Seej
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I'm not even gonna start the physics speculation (for you non-physics types out there, Hyperspace is very readable - Kaku is great at communicating theoretical physics to people who don't know about it). However, aren't quantum computers supposed to work by doing all possible calculations at the same time in parallel realities. I really can't be bothered googling for a more exact description of this, so flame me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and the article says 'Mediterranean Ocean' - I take it that it used to say 'Med Ocean' judging from people's posts earlier in this thread - isn't it great to have an eagle eyed team of free proof-readers? Of course, as we all know, it's a sea not an ocean Smile .

EDIT: Ooops, I was trouting Sad

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:28 am
Last edited by Seej on Thu May 19, 2005 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cause the Urn is the only alternative she would preffer if they cant scatter her ashes in our non existent Med Ocean! Very Happy

I like the Virtual World theory - Perplex City could exist within our cyberspace - there has been some cool stories in Wired about "Bots" - programs that roam around the web for a specific programed purpose, but then can update their program on meeting a better "Bot". So "life" could be existant in Cyberspace (but realistically I reckon it would be in a primeordeal state right now)

I also love the paired electon theory, as I used to fantacise about communication through this while in Physics A Level Very Happy

And The Gravity Idea is cool - I watched a program on the theory of Superstrings being updated to a reality where our dimentional existance is more like breadcrusts?? Very Happy (or mebranes) - and that mentioned the ability of gravity to seep through and distort each layer of parrallel dimensions..

I think its an inside job for sure, and they already have the technology...

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:42 am
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gjindancer
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OOps! I thought I logged in!

That "Guest" was me!!

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:43 am
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The First Speaker
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Joined: 18 May 2005
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I'm a complete n00b to ARG's, but have been following the board since I got the firebox catalogue last week. Now I'm hooked!!

On the subject of communication between us and Perplex City, there's a good book by Gregory Bendford called Timescape, which features communication between different times. A future Earth sends messages back in time using some sort of quantum entanglement (can't remember exactly) to warn the present Earth of an impending ecological disaster.

Nice quote in the cover too:

"How is it possible to account for the difference between past and future when an examination of the laws of physics reveals only the symmetry of time? ...present-day physics makes no provision whatever for a flowing time, or for a moving present moment."
- P. C. W. Davies. The Physics of Time Asymmetry
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:30 am
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Mikeyj
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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Hiya TFS,

Dont' forget to vote (see sig)!

Seej wrote:
...aren't quantum computers supposed to work by doing all possible calculations at the same time in parallel realities. I really can't be bothered googling for a more exact description of this, so flame me if I'm wrong.


Not sure whether it was parallel realities. Thought it was just that as each particle can be both 1 and 0 simultaneously so all possible inputs and outputs can be calculated simultaneosly therefore making things a bit quicker than my little laptop (which is currently being throttled to death by Norton Antivirus....grrrr). How you extract the information about which calculation you've done I've no idea. Does that sound right?
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:39 am
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Mima
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I still love the theory that we are a sim in their world! Completely unfeasable with the current facts, but until we know for sure .....

Can you imagine trying to train Sims with puzzles to get them to find something when they all have truely independent minds! What a nightmare!

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:42 am
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firefox
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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who said anything about independence?

i am programmed to be the ultimate love..r?

it is a cool spec tho isn't it? bit too obvious tho, a double inverted arg. ppc makes an arg-hunt for their own arg-gone-loose (us) to retrieve their cube, but their arg thinks that its creators are an arg within another arg, this of course cause a nexus hole to form (kinda like a black hole with x.. makes it sound sexier) and we all get sucked into a timeless eternity, where you can listen to mr. peabody and sherman argue pseudo-quantum mechanics vs the new notion of a cube shaped universe.

or we just find that the cube has been split up into 4-6 parts and buried across 4-6 countries/continents, at certain locations only accessible by first tracking down the thieves who hold the location of the separate pieces. Wink

but heck, theres enough spec posts in this section of the forum to sink the titanic (figuratively speaking, word-berg) so i think i'll wait and see what unfolds.

yanka wrote:

in other words, how would the exchange be enabled?

i had about a 200 word explanation about relativity, black holes, and duality of light, but heck, i realised i cant explain it with the limited physics i know, or that id need about 2000 more words, to explain that i couldn't explain it. so for now methinks we need more info on where ppc is, in space relative to us. otherwise the floor is open whacky sci fi.

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:21 am
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tanner
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Mima wrote:
I still love the theory that we are a sim in their world! Completely unfeasable with the current facts, but until we know for sure .....

Can you imagine trying to train Sims with puzzles to get them to find something when they all have truely independent minds! What a nightmare!


i've just realised that the whole world and everything in it is just a dream i'm having -- so when i wake up you will all cease to exist -- including perplexcity -- sorry bout this folks -- i'll try to stay asleep as long as i can

Very Happy Very Happy
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"And the princess and the prince discuss what's real and what is not,
But it doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden" - BD


PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:54 am
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JebJoya
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tanner wrote:
Mima wrote:
I still love the theory that we are a sim in their world! Completely unfeasable with the current facts, but until we know for sure .....

Can you imagine trying to train Sims with puzzles to get them to find something when they all have truely independent minds! What a nightmare!


i've just realised that the whole world and everything in it is just a dream i'm having -- so when i wake up you will all cease to exist -- including perplexcity -- sorry bout this folks -- i'll try to stay asleep as long as i can

Very Happy Very Happy


That makes it easy, Tanner, the cube is down the back of your sofa - if it's your dream and you believe it to be true, it is Smile

Heehee

Jeb
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:11 pm
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Rolerbe
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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yanka wrote:
tanner wrote:
info transfer but not physical???

Um, how, though?? Photon is the fastest unit of information I know of (barring Hawking radiation and holographic principle stuff that I don't really understand very well to begin with), and it can't travel instantaneously. There is, theoretically, some sort of instantaneous exchange of information within a quantum-entangled particle pair, but, er, I can't see how this could in any way be used to read off of our internet.

Anyone has any ideas how a stream of on-off pulses can be transported faster than light speed without utilizing some sort of portal?


First off, its important to note that the information that is transferred is not the same thing as the (physical) medium (e.g. E-M wave) that does the transferring. Also, photons are, strictly speaking not physical in the sense that they are 'energy' not 'matter' (although this distinction is now largely only one of historical thinking).

There are two possibilities (in 'real' life) for FTL information transfer. First, it has been shown that the interference pattern between standing two electromagnetic waves (i.e. the 'beat ' frequency) can propagate FTL. But, no one has thought of any way to encode information into this phenomonon as changes to the interference propagate at less than or equal to the speed of light.

The second method is also impractical, but intriguing. Researchers have shown that quantum tunneling (used every day in devices such as 'tunnel diodes', etc.) will propagate a signal faster than the speed of light in vacuum (about 1.2X if I recall correctly). I saw a neat demonstration sending Mozart through the quantum tunnel (proving that it can be used for information transfer). Not too practical for communications with another world, but very cool nonetheless Smile
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:33 pm
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Rolerbe
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yanka wrote:
In my understanding (which, again, is very miniscule), it's not really sometimes both a wave and a particle - it's both all the time. Actually, it's not only light, either - electrons exhibit the same behavior, and, I guess, quantum mechanics posits that all particles have a wave-particle duality.


<pedantic>IMHO, the whole wave-particle thing has genrally done more disservice than good. The fundamental particles are neither waves nor particles. These are just the historical remnants of our groping for understanding, attempting to extend into the unknown by analogy from the known. The trouble with analogies is just this -- that they are both right and wrong at the same time. It is true that under appropriate conditions fundamental particles will behave in a manner very similar to the propagation of a wave. In others very similar to the bouncing of billiard balls. But in still other conditions they behave like neither of these. They are just what they are -- not sometimes waves and sometimes point-like particles</pedantic>
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:52 pm
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tanner
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everthing has a wave function -- it just gets less likely the greater the mass -- i did see once a calculation of the quantum wave packet (frequency) of the universe but i cant remember where
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"And the princess and the prince discuss what's real and what is not,
But it doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden" - BD


PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:57 pm
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Rolerbe
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The First Speaker wrote:
"How is it possible to account for the difference between past and future when an examination of the laws of physics reveals only the symmetry of time? ...present-day physics makes no provision whatever for a flowing time, or for a moving present moment."
- P. C. W. Davies. The Physics of Time Asymmetry


Nice quote. But, while I'm on a tear about quantum physics, etc., not completely true. Almost all the fundamental interactions are reversible (i.e. exhibit Time Symmetry), but not all. There are some interactions that break CPT symmetry (Charge-Parity-Time). This at least partially explains why we have much matter and little anti-matter, and why time flows in one direction.

There are entropy arguments as well...(fades off into incoherent mumbling...)
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:07 pm
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