unforum

[<PSH>]

as far as i know this hasn't been disscussed per say, maybe mentioned. But unless i missed something realy big we don't know how they study us... i wildly speced in this thread that they use a crazy physics loophole called tachyons...

any body else have any ideas they think we should consolated here as to how perplexcity communitcates with/ studies earth... there were alot of other neat physics based ideas in the thread linked above... maybe we should merge that here since it's a little ot there and kind of long...

[RI_Barnica]

[Leeravitz]

I agree that the physics based explanations seem to be the best we've come up with so far. We can certainly work out a few of the parameters of how *long* they might have been studying earth for, simply because someone like Coralhouse in her youth was working on 'Convergent Development Theory'.

That sounds clearly like someone showing interest (say, 40 - 50 years back) in the idea that Earth civilization and Perplex City civilization had developed (to some extent) in tandem. But had Coralhouse actually *seen* evidence that allowed her to pursue further studies in this area, or was she simply coming up with a purely theoretical speculation on the likelihood that development had been 'parallel'? Given that she seems to have assumed that Earth has a 'Mediterranean Ocean', it's hard to say...

On the other hand, Ruth Coralhouse was a Social Scientist, not a theoretical physicist (or whatever), so, presumably, the studies she would have made on Earth development might necessarily have had to have been structured on the basis of more pragmatic discoveries made by her associates in other departments of the Academy...

So, was some kind of contact point between Earth and Perplex City discovered some decades previously??

This does seem like an awkward call. We can safely say a number of things:

1. City Society appears to be more sociologically advanced than much of Earth Society is, although whether its technology is currently beyond Earth knowledge is open to question. PC utilises things like keys, driverless cars, mind - enhancement drugs and so on, which are not familiar in our world, but not necessarily beyond our capability to construct. There is evidently no reason to believe that the Perplexians lack considerable scientific know - how.

2. At the same time, it's clear that there is no formally acknowledged 'bridging' possible between their world and our world - Coralhouse may have been a little out of touch at her death, but her assumption was that actual 'bridging' was in the pilot stages. Whether this is true or not remains to be deduced.

3. Nonetheless, we are aware that Perplexians have considerable knowledge about Earth habits (or, at least, they like to think they do). There are obviously things sold in stores like Earthworks that are 'exotic' to Perplexians when they are, in fact, commonplace to us - paperback books, for instance. Maybe they never developed such things, maybe Perplexian society has simply advanced beyond the need for them. We know that the Academy's Special Project Unit comprises team members who hold interests in Earth matters, and it would appear they have studied them for a few years prior to sign - up on the Project (indeed, this may be why Sente chose them for the job). So, Anna has studied the work of George Perec, Caine the work of Bach etc.
In context, it could be assumed that the fad for all things Earth-based in PC has only peaked in the months following Sente's announcement that the Cube had likely gone to Earth. But, it also seems that Perplexians do not find actual references to Earth or Earth culture unusual (they instead find Sente's behaviour unusual). That would seem to presuppose that they have known about us for quite a few years, and become used to Earth as an exotic parallel locale.

What this seems to add up to is that their study of Earth must (most likely) be done at a distance (possibly through tachyonics), and that they have been studying Earth in this way for some time. Then, at a second level, there is some kind of thriving market in replicating things seen/studied at a remove. But *physical* interaction between the worlds is either a) impossible, even with PC technology or b) already in existence, but subject to cover - up.

Not sure any of that helped answer the question, but it's worth trying to piece all this stuff together, I think.

[arieh]

[Leeravitz]

Glad you could confirm the dates on that. It's a theory that makes sense to me, for what its worth. It might, therefore, indicate either that PC *does* exist 'virtually' in relationship to us, or simply, as you say, that Internet communication 'bridges' the gap between parallels somehow...

I guess there's no way of knowing whether their computer tech was *way* ahead of ours, and they were sitting around typing things into laptops whilst Turing was still trying to solve Hilbert problems, or even whilst Babbage was musing on punch cards and complaining about the noise made by organ grinders (he did, you know)...

On the other hand, maybe the worlds are so 'convergent' that their tech more or less developed at the same rate ours did. I think it's hard to tell. While City tech seems a lot more advanced than Earth tech in many respects, it also seems to me that the City is a remarkably Utopian place where purely progressive social development may have been quite unhindered for many years. In that sense, maybe they've just had more enthusiatic investment in ideas that remain on the fringes in 'our' world, have developed better R + D departments and so on.

In that sense, Perplex City is very different to, say, 20th century Earth, where some of the biggest technological advances came directly out of warfare (computing and nuclear applications, to name but two).

Maybe it's also rational for a civilization with a developed interest in number theory, logical paradoxes, and so on to have come up with the computer or equivalent independent of outside influence.

Of course, who knows what the first Perplex City computer might have been like? A creative artwork combining microcircuitry and an electrical current which turned out to have unusual applications??!

I think I'm just burbling now

[Violet]

if they only have access to Earth via the internet they'd be incredibly clever to be able to replicate stuff precisely and study it, especially back in the day when the internet wasn't as widespread as it is now and info wasn't so diverse. I'm getting loads of vibes so far from this game that say either everything means something, or the PMs aren't thinking things through and we're able to find holes in the scenario they're trying to put out that they didn't intend and then need to fix

Could just be me tho, usually is! Still, they must like me, they stole my name for the coolest IG character!

[Leeravitz]

Could be...although I suppose the Internet point was that the first intimation that direct communication was *possible* got going circa 1972-

The idea that communication might be developed formally may have remained at the technical level for some years (purely within the confines of academe, as it were). We don't know that something like Coralhouse's subject was not predominantly theoretical, for instance.

That might also mean that it's only with the full flowering of the Internet in recent years that the Perplexians have been able to start accessing/ downloading huge amounts of information about Earth society (to start with, sure, it'll all have been military despatches etc.). And maybe that does mean that the 'fad' for all things Earth based (which appears to be commenest amongst the young and impressionable) is fairly recent in origin.

But I still suppose it predates Sente's remarkable plan by a few years; otherwise, rather than saying 'what do you want to go and get us involved in Earth affairs for?', people would be asking 'What is this parallel Earth gibberish you're spouting, man? Have you gone insane?'.

So, maybe they've been Earth crazy over in Perplex City for about a decade (the early 1990's on), although they started becoming aware of Earth in the early 70's? Obviously, it is only last year that they've started to make direct overtures: the relationship has been omnidirectional prior to 2004.

Maybe that's what the 'Project Syzygy' was - the initial brokering of contact (however they managed it).

Whether or not the replicas are actually very good replicas remains to be seen...

As to whether the MC Team knoow quite what they've got themselves into: I was once told by a wise GM that there are only two things a GM can rely. The first is that, however obvious you may think the answer to a puzzle is, it's guaranteed that 50% of your players won't see it. The second - that however many bases you may think you've got covered the players are bound to spring something on you that you weren't expecting.

Were they expecting us to be getting into discussion of whether Perplex City communications are powered by tachyonics, or whether certain technological developments could have logically evolved in the City without, for instance, a Second World War to force them?? I imagine not...

[Leeravitz]

Re: Whether or not the Cube has been 'buried' at our end of the line by an accomplice...

Who could that possibly be? One of the Mind Candy Team, surely?? I mean, who else knows about the Earth - Perplex City link???

*I* didn't bury it on someone's behalf, and I'm guessing neither did you...

But maybe it's safer to assume that it was, indeed, like a transporter accident...or that the various components of the Cube have simply been scattered through our immediate environment...or whatever...

Otherwise, we'd have to concede that Mind Candy have been employed by the leader of a virtual community to engage us in an ARG in order to find an item which has, in fact, been secreted somewhere by a member of the self - same team on behalf of another virtual character either identical with or working against the interests of the prior virtual character, with or without the collusion of the said team member's fellow team members...

And that just makes my head hurt...

[JebJoya]

However, why say the cube was "BURIED" (on two occasions now) if it was a transporter accident? How do they know where it went if it was a transporter accident, and why use the word "BURIED"??

Meh, I'm tired and I'm off to london tomorrow morning, night all

Jeb

[xnbomb]

00000110 Feet Under

[Mosestrotsky]

As a lot of us are assuming a potential insider job in the Academy then it is easy to surmise that whoever he/she/they are would also have access to the Internet . Therefore the thieves could have contacted someone to help them. What it boils down to is whether the cube came here by design (therefore technology to transport physical objects already exists) or accident (the cube saving itself or being triggered in some way).

Note : (I believe they could have access to all forms of medium - radio, television etc - initially a sort of big ear wgere they heard our communications. It wasn't until the Internet came along that they had access to our world).

Also as to the development of Perplex City/Our World - our civilisations tend to have got to where we are in about 2 to 3 thousand years. They have briefly mentioned pre-history (discovery of Sabre Tooted Tiger images) but timeline wise what we know would cover most of their BC and early AC. Therefore they would be about 200 or so years advanced tech of us. Roughly (very roughly speaking of course).

[<PSH>]

[Violet]

maybe it's in Bury St Edmunds

[Leeravitz]

By rights, something has to be

[JebJoya]

Damnit, I was in bury st edmunds about 2 weeks before i found out about PxC... Damnit

Jeb