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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Hiding Domain Names
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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FLmutant
Decorated


Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL

 		Hiding Domain Names
So there have been a hundred questions I've wanted to throw back at you guys to hear your thoughts on that I've been sitting on until the curtain was open again. People tell me if I'm brave I should ask 'em in Meta (because some of them challenge some operative assumptions.)

There were a few criticisms during Heist about me not hiding the registrations on the domain name listings (something we've done even on past campaigns of our own.) I've also had to defend against claims that "fiction" is really "fake" or "false" (which is just a nasty word for fiction, really.)

So this time, we decided to leave the domains with a visible registrant, as part of making the argument that we weren't out to trick people or decieve them, we were out to entertain them.

Strangely, the very people who I expected to have look up the DNS and go, "Oh, it must be another of those online narratives," frequently instead said, "Geeze, they don't even know how to hide a domain name!" Laughing

Would it have sucked in Bees if you could have seen a domain registration? How do PMs demark effectively for you the edge of the IG/OOG experience without spoiling the immersion, but without getting accused of "deception" (which is what, I think, the "general audience" occassional gets confused about when it comes to fiction online)?

And do you think a "dissenting view" (if I happen to end up having one with you) is something that can go into the PM wiki?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:51 pm
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

 		Mostly I pay Domains By Proxy and hide behind their excellent service.

Although, I have used totally fake information when I had an ingame reason to do so.

Early on, whois was totally inbounds. I think if it weren't, we'd have to start talking about publishing rules and start drifting into the "Do we need a meta site?" discussion.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:16 pm
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

 		Re: Hiding Domain Names
I am all about consistancy in the experience. If you mask one domain name, you should mask them all. If one is made under a identity that fits the theme of the sit, they all should. If one is made under the agency/designer/whatever, they all should. Furthermore, I think that it should fit with the overall feel of the experience. If the curtain is, relatively, transparent then the sites should probably reflect that. If the curtain is opaque, then the registrations should be hidden or in character.

I know that it is hard and that people want to say or believe that there is a certain formula or that there is a specific way in which things should be done. It makes it easier to just up and start if you can buy a book or read a guide that spells it all out for you. That may be possible with formulaic ARGs. However, I think (hope) that you are looking towards a broader definition and beyond such things and into the broader realm of immersive internet fictions or some sort of immersive narrative. Considering that, I believe it is important to make the experience as cohesive as possible and if it requires hiding the domain names, that is what you need to do. If it doesn't require it, then what is the purpose?

FLmutant wrote:
How do PMs demark effectively for you the edge of the IG/OOG experience without spoiling the immersion, but without getting accused of "deception" (which is what, I think, the "general audience" occassional gets confused about when it comes to fiction online)?

Well, every experience that I've worked on has required that in-game sites tag themselves in some manner. With Lockjaw, we used a fictional webbrowser and made fun of the early browser wars with "this site best viewed with netsight" tags. In Metacortechs, we created a very in-game metasite in the form of a hosting company (UnderScore Hosting). All of the game sites had images fed from site specific directories on USH. The website also allowed us a place for a legal disclaimer as well as a way to express any major concerns with the various sites, though we only used it once to deal with repeated attacks on the server. In the SMB games, we mark every website with an SMB image created specifically for that game and each image links back to a game specific community forum (very meta). A Heist equivelant of the SMB scenario would be if every ingame site had a little graphic that linked directly to stolenA3.

FLmutant wrote:
And do you think a "dissenting view" (if I happen to end up having one with you) is something that can go into the PM wiki?

I would hope so. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a wiki, would it?

- b

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:21 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		I'm about to walk out the door and can't expound much, but it seems to me that an anonymous registration is a hallmark of an ARG these days, and a confirmation that the site is in-game -- at least to the current ARG community.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:31 pm
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FLmutant
Decorated


Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL

 		Re: Hiding Domain Names
imbri wrote:
A Heist equivelant of the SMB scenario would be if every ingame site had a little graphic that linked directly to stolenA3.


That what we had recommended (and what we did on Urns) and ended up becoming a bit more subtle than that (clearly).

bill wrote:
Mostly I pay Domains By Proxy and hide behind their excellent service.


And that's been our normal approach for hiding registrations as well.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:33 pm
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

 		what you should really be careful about these days is reverse dns, as everyone is doing it and nobody is saying it's wrong!

audicarfan.com? virgilkingofgames.com? hmmmm Smile

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:48 pm
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imbriModerator
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland
addlepated wrote:
I'm about to walk out the door and can't expound much, but it seems to me that an anonymous registration is a hallmark of an ARG these days, and a confirmation that the site is in-game -- at least to the current ARG community.


but if I've said it once...

why do we care about the current ARG community?!?!

I mean, it's not that I don't care about y'all, cause I do. But in thinking about a game and designing a game, I trust that you guys can figure things out on your own and do so pretty quickly. It's the other bozos that I worry about.

I also, personally, despise designing with the current community in mind. It traps the thought process. At least it does for me.

- b

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:49 pm
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FLmutant
Decorated


Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL
addlepated wrote:
I'm about to walk out the door and can't expound much, but it seems to me that an anonymous registration is a hallmark of an ARG these days, and a confirmation that the site is in-game -- at least to the current ARG community.


Unfortunately, it's also the hallmark of the political smear campaign and the spam marketer. Which is big part of the problem of the misunderstanding, I think.

Ehsan wrote:
audicarfan.com? virgilkingofgames.com? hmmmm


Oh, my. Embarassed At least you didn't discover that I also registered igotyourhead.com and ortheiguanagetsit.com as well (you don't want to know what the original story twists were going to be, but once upon a preliminary draft Nisha had a pet iguana.) Our worst was on Urns where all this stuff was getting ready to launch as Bardelebenpuzzlers.com (and Bardelebenskulls.com and Bardelebentowing.com, etc.) when the week of launch the lawyers nixed the name useage and it all changes to Steinitzpuzzlers, etc.

Audicarfan.com was the originally planned site that became StolenA3.com (so was the primary domain on the machine, grrrr.)

imbri wrote:
I mean, it's not that I don't care about y'all, cause I do. But in thinking about a game and designing a game, I trust that you guys can figure things out on your own and do so pretty quickly. It's the other bozos that I worry about.


More colorfully written than I would have phrased it, but yeah, that's the same thing I'm thinking of. I'm enough of an outsider to the ARG community that wouldn't describe myself as a PM to anybody but you guys (in that I'm limited to just the ARG genre as a producer.)

And this is one of my EASY questions I want to pose you guys. Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:00 pm
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

 		Well, designing then with rank newbies in mind, I would think using the designer's real info in the whois could be beneficial if it led to something meta like a player's guide, the official game forum, or a story so far site.

It breaks the mold a bit, but for the uninitiated, there is no mold. Plus, my experience has been that anything that can't be found or solved in five minutes or less simply won't be found unless veteran players are regularly involved. New players just don't seem to get the concept until they've stuck around long enough to see others solve and/or find a few things.

I blame Blues Clues!
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http://deaddrop.us/
Dedicated to Alternate Reality Gaming

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:03 pm
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland
FLmutant wrote:
imbri wrote:
I mean, it's not that I don't care about y'all, cause I do. But in thinking about a game and designing a game, I trust that you guys can figure things out on your own and do so pretty quickly. It's the other bozos that I worry about.


More colorfully written than I would have phrased it, but yeah...



Colorful but filled with love. I've referred to players as bozos for a couple years now. It's a term of endearment taken from the nick of y2kbozo who was the first player to find lockjaw. It just works on so many levels for me.

Flippin' bozos used dns and found all of our sites!
ha! Did you see that latest spec? bozos!
Awww poor bozos are totally and completely stuck Sad

I love the bozos!

- b

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:24 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Yes, bozo, much like trout, is a gentle term of endearment.
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xbl gamertag: krystyn

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:10 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas
imbri wrote:
why do we care about the current ARG community?!?!

I mean, it's not that I don't care about y'all, cause I do. But in thinking about a game and designing a game, I trust that you guys can figure things out on your own and do so pretty quickly. It's the other bozos that I worry about.

I also, personally, despise designing with the current community in mind. It traps the thought process. At least it does for me.

Well, *I* know that. But that's why I put the caveat in at the end.

Why not register sites with semi-real sounding information? That'd be a happy medium for everyone, I think. I know a couple of years ago they were talking about introducing legislation to make false information on domain registrations illegal, but I dunno if that ever came to pass.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:31 pm
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colin
Entrenched

Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Australia

 		Re: Hiding Domain Names
FLmutant wrote:
There were a few criticisms during Heist...
that Always happens (I'm sure there was a few praises too)

FLmutant wrote:
So this time, we decided to leave the domains with a visible registrant, as part of making the argument that we weren't out to trick people or decieve them, we were out to entertain them.
Fair enough

FLmutant wrote:
Strangely, the very people who I expected to have look up the DNS and go, "Oh, it must be another of those online narratives," frequently instead said, "Geeze, they don't even know how to hide a domain name!"
You can't really control peoples reactions, some people will always think there smarter than the game. As such they will choose a reason that makes them look smart, not what is resonable within the context.

FLmutant wrote:
Would it have sucked in Bees if you could have seen a domain registration?
Yeah I think it would have. ILB just wasn't that sort of a game. It tried to keep a really solid curtain. Apart from launching under the banner of Halo there was no trace of who made it. AotH wasn't done in that style.

I think on the whole WHOIS is way overated as part of a game. I would try to be consistent across all my sites (As imbri said). Whether I choose real information, proxy registration etc. would depend on the type of game I'm creating.

You can't control peoples interpretations, just try to guide them in the direction you want. Don't be to worried becuase a few don't "get it"

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:24 pm
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FLmutant
Decorated


Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL
addlepated wrote:
I know a couple of years ago they were talking about introducing legislation to make false information on domain registrations illegal, but I dunno if that ever came to pass.


Yeah, it did. 7 years in jail for providing false information in a DNS registration. Some overview here.

colin wrote:
You can't control peoples interpretations, just try to guide them in the direction you want. Don't be to worried becuase a few don't "get it"


Oh, I definitely don't let it worry me too much, it's more a point of curiosity about some of the places were the traditional ARG fans behave a little bit different than the fans we've sought to entertain in the past. So this is more like a musician asking a bunch blues artists questions about why they think something is or is not the blues.

Brian (ps: sorry I fell out of chat last night, stupid Java)

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:25 am
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas
FLmutant wrote:
addlepated wrote:
I know a couple of years ago they were talking about introducing legislation to make false information on domain registrations illegal, but I dunno if that ever came to pass.


Yeah, it did. 7 years in jail for providing false information in a DNS registration. Some overview here.

Ugh. Well in that case. I think everyone should use anonymous whois information no matter what kind of site they register, just as a sort of civil disobedience.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:25 pm
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