unforum

[bertyb]

Anything about that deck of cards could prove valuable at this stage.

I have had a look at it on the card catalog and I can see what you mean, but need to view the card up close to see it in more detail.

Will check it out later.......might be the final piece of the jigsaw......then again knowing the way this card has gone on - I have probably got more chance of hearing a snake f@rt.

apolgies if anybody offended.

[BBuck]

[beglee]

[BBuck]

What we need is a way to work back from the keystream to the starting order that generated it, and a way to work out the keyphrase that generated this starting order. This would allow us to guess at likely plaintext, which we could then check whether a credible keyphrase had generated the required keystream.

Working back from the starting order to the keyphrase is easy to do. It's the bit before that could be long-winded and extremely difficult, maybe impossible.

I'm trying to work out how many letters you would need to generate a complete starting order. Each character of the keystream is generated using the exact positions of six cards:

i) the two Jokers
ii) the top card after the triple cut
iii) the top card before the count cut
iv) the top card after the count cut
v) the card that is counted to generate the letter of the keystream.

So it may be that a string of, say, 12 keystream letters may be enough to work back to the starting order of the deck.

Not the most hopeful route, I know. And it would mean Solitaire is effectively cracked as a cipher. But if anyone clever out there can do something with this, I'd be very grateful...

[EDIT] Can't count anymore. Six cards, I meant six all along. [EDIT]

[bertyb]

I have had another look at the card and the detailing on the pack.

On the side you have in barely legible words - "Made in China".

On the front, you have a bit in the top corner that has been whited out.

As I am of the opinion that this is an unopened deck, I reckon we could try and see whether we can find a similar deck of cards from a chinese retailer on the net, which may fill in the missing parts. Also a chinese deck of cards may come in a different order to those of the UK - for example it may come in a different suit order or even all the aces, then all the 2's and so on.

Might be a dead end, but a new avenue to look at.

I am having to shoot out tonight, but will pick up again tomo. If anybody discovers anything of note, then stick it up.

Cheers.

[Grizy]

I agree with bertyb, that the pack is unopened. Towards the top of the pack you can see the tear-off strip for removing the plastic wrapper.

The solve screen asks "What is the message?". The text box for the answer is 40 char wide by 10 rows. To me this indicates that the message is longer than 20 chars.

I think there has to be something in the message or on the pack to tell Garnet how to order the pack and decode the 108 letter coded message.

That something could be a word or a picture but it must be something Garnet will definitely respond to.

[Danives]

Wow, the Sente thing is very interesting. I never got a response from Garnet...albeit I sent an email saying "Give us another hint, pleeeeeeeeeeeease" lol. Oh, the clue for this one wasnt the one about it being "doubley hard" I dont think...thats the History of Ciphers one.

[ramsfan]

Sorry but I had no idea where best to post this. Got this email from a "lurker" who'd registered the day before. Presume it's some kind of clue to something. Not sure if other people got it. Have looked through the index to try to find a better trail.

[bertyb]

I have never mailed violet, but when i mailed Patrick originally I got an auto reply before receiving a reply. It took about 3 days in total to turn round.

[padge]

Well as I thought, the brute force method of guessing the answer came up with nothing. No surprise really because I've got more chance of winning the lottery than guessing a random card pack order. So, I'm giving up on that method and going back to looking for more clues.

I emailed cards at PXC asking if the motorbike was a CHANG JIANG, but I got the stock response of 'sometimes the sentinel gives clues from the academy'. Suppose we just better keep an eye out on the sentinel.

[bertyb]

Having looked at a couple of site, the CHANG JIANG Motorycycle had a sidecar - can anybody see that in the picture?

[maevey]

I did a search on this forum and couldn't find anything that referred to this (although if it has already been stated feel free to trout me).

Doing a very quick search on Goole revealed this site:
http://www.made-in-china.com/
which has a very large selection of motorbikes and dirt bikes in its transportation section. I'm afraid I don't have a copy of the card and the scan isn't clear enough for me to identify the bike myself.
The connection just seemed too close to ignore.

[bertyb]

Could be something.

I am just searching through it on Playing cards, see if I can find a similar pack.

It seems that cards orginated in China, after the introduction of paper.....all a load of information, doesnt look relevant but you never know.

[kie_yeo]

A few ideas to chuck in the mix -

Going along with the idea that the motorbike is indeed a Chang Yiang, a bit of googling reveals that this is the Chinese name for the Yangtze Kiang River - could this be the pass key?

Also sticking with the Chinese theme, i believe they read right to left and top to bottom so perhaps the ciphertext should be starting RMVUF and ending UGHIX. This also puts the heat sensitive letters in the middle of the text rather than at each end.

Finally the dial in the centre of the card is facing South South West (ish)! Another possible pass key?

Feel free to trout me if any of this has been mentioned but im not reading through 24 pages of posts just to check trout away!

[donstobbart]

Further to comments early on in the thread, about the cards, and which decks they are, found this deck:http://www.playingcardsales.co.uk/cards/frameitem.asp?catref=13374

The only difference as mentioed earlier is the bikes, and the centre of the deck (on ours it has a compass pointing SW). This deck comes as a double deck with 4 "wild" cards, making 108, exactly what we need, no?

This is the only bicycle deck I can find with this pattern on the back, so hopefully.......

Don