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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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neuromancer
Decorated


Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Birmingham, UK

CALLING ALL PROGRAMMERS!!!

We want YOU!

If you've got even a few months of programming experience with C/C++, and some free time then could you please post here or PM me? I'd like to get a big list of potential developers, so that we can share out the work and roll this app out faster. We need the client, a GUI, the serverside stuff and the stuff to organise the key-challenges.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:53 pm
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Langley Moor
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 86

Just did the same calculations - have now revised it to try aaaaaaaa, aaaabaaa, aaaacaaa, etc.... this could take a while!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:12 pm
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Scott
Entrenched


Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 1140
Location: 390 Chestnut Ridge Rd, Rochester NY, 14624, USA

Here's a little perl script i came up with fFor this. it assumes we only want lowercase letters. It also scrolls an enourmous amount off the screen, such that if it did fFind the key, you may never know it. i wish i knew how to make silent so it doesnt return any output unless it fFinds the result.
rccrypt-work.zip
Description  rccrypt perl script fFor checking lowercase letter keys
zip

 Download 
Filename  rccrypt-work.zip 
Filesize  335Bytes 
Downloaded  171 Time(s) 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:39 pm
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Jaeneas
Boot


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Leicester, England.

Yup "garbage and nonesense characters" pretty much sums it up.

Iin fact CCCCCCCC was ten times as much "garbage and nonesense characters".

but one of these babies is bound to work. . . . . eventually.

TTFN

More...

I have tried

reynolds/Reynolds/REYNOLDS -
3rdpower/3rdPower/3RDPOWER/3RDPower -
scarlett/Scarlett/SCARLETT -
E=MCCUBE/E=McCube -
13Labour/13LABOUR/13labour
hercules/Hercules/HERCULES
apremont/Apremont/APREMONT
iskander/Iskander/ISKANDER

all at 1 million keys.

Nothing.....
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:52 pm
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TeamMfM
Boot

Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 17

Vons Message

"rc5crypt"

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:06 am
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Langley Moor
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 86

Unless someone else gets there first, I'll try it in an hour or so once this run finishes.... currently running aaaabaaa, will then try yours and move on to aaaacaaa.

Thanks for finding that program to try it for me, but i'd prefer something that's going to make any results obvious. such as you made..... then again, guess it can't hurt to give it a try!

EDIT: Is this a program for linux or windows? Wasn't an extention I recognised, so I've left it for now.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:09 am
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Jaeneas
Boot


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Leicester, England.

OK

I'm just picking random eight character sets from the wiki now, but nil desperandum and all that. More unsuccessful combos are...

taversen/Taversen/TAVERSEN
marchant/Marchant/MARCHANT
wardlock/Wardlock/WARDLOCK
delfcast/Delfcast/DELFCAST
rc5crypt/RC5CRYPT

All at various capitalisations and run at 1 million keys.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:53 am
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WolverineFan
Decorated


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 192
Location: Michigan/USA

neuromancer wrote:
CALLING ALL PROGRAMMERS!!!

We want YOU!


Suggestion: Why don't we set up something on SourceForge? That will make it very easy to collaborate since we can use a shared version control system.

If someone would like me to set up SourceForge I did do it once before Smile I could probably figure it out again. I'll need the inital source code we want to populate it with.

http://www.sourceforge.net/
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:40 pm
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walther
Boot

Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 38

SourceForge might be a good idea.

Anyway here's my addition to the work that has already been done. The zip combines BriEnigma's Windows exe and a modified version of Scott's perl script( Hope you guys don't mind). Basically added the following:
1. It will check all combos of (A-Z, a-z, 0-9) instead of just a-z
2. you can specify a range of values to check
3. included a compiled exe version for people without Perl installed.
4. It will create a dump file called LogFile.txt with some other useful information and the solution if found.
5. Use Ctrl-C to break and have the Break point written to the log

execute the rccrypt-work.exe file with or without the following parameters
rccrypt-work.exe [Start] [End]
for example you can
1. leave Start and end blank to just start at AAAAAAA0 and go for ever
2. put a start string in AAAACAA0 (Always use 0 for the 8th position) and leave end blank.
3. put a start value and an end value to process a block of strings AAAAAAN0 to AAAABAA0

Any Questions, Comments, Complaints just PM me. Feel free to add more to the code.

walther
rccrypt-windows.zip
Description 
zip

 Download 
Filename  rccrypt-windows.zip 
Filesize  955.1KB 
Downloaded  221 Time(s) 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:37 am
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MontyWorm
Kilroy

Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 2

As much as I feel I don't want to burst your bubbles, you've overlooked some of the information PerplexCity have supplied you.

I will agree that the 5 distributed.net cows point towards rc5 as an encrypting algorithm

I did I search on RC5 online, and came up with http://jya.com/nsa-study.htm page. The parts that seem interesting to me are:
Quote:
RC5 is, in fact, a family of algorithms, and should correctly be specified as RC5-w/r/b, where each of the parameters are:
* w: the word size in bits (so usually 32, but 16 and 64 are legal);
* r: the number of rounds (currently 12 recommended for w = 32, although 0 to 255 are legal; note that an RC5 round is equivalent to two DES rounds);
* b: the keylength in bytes (0 to 255 are legal, this parameter is discussed further below).


It then occured to me, that this card has 64/12/8 across the top as options for these values.

The truth is, if you get these values wrong, your time-consuming decryption attempts will mean nothing - and you still have to work out who to detect when you've found the correct key.

I'd also add that there is other information on this card: there is a small grid of letters on the top left, and what looks like a playing card on the bottom left. These are probably clues as to the key.

It would not be very sporting of Mind Candy to only have a puzzle solvable by brute force, there must be a simpler, more elegant solution

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:02 am
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locqust
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 545
Location: Gloucestershire UK

The grid of letters is the signature of Kurt one of characters who designed the card. We're not really sure what the playing card symbol means but seeing as they are on other cards too its probably nothing to do with solving the puzzle but part of a much larger puzzle across the whole set of cards.

I did wonder about the validity of the 64/12/8 being an algorithm but alot of the guys on this forum are way more intelligent than me when it comes to these things and seem to think it will work so..*shrug*
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:12 am
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neuromancer
Decorated


Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Birmingham, UK

WolverineFan wrote:
Suggestion: Why don't we set up something on SourceForge? That will make it very easy to collaborate since we can use a shared version control system.


Yeah, I was kinda planning to set a project up on SF anyway. I'll add the project at some point this weekend; it doesn't need to be populated with sourcecode initially.

MontyWorm wrote:
It then occured to me, that this card has 64/12/8 across the top as options for these values.

The truth is, if you get these values wrong, your time-consuming decryption attempts will mean nothing - and you still have to work out who to detect when you've found the correct key.


If you look a few posts back, we figure this out already, hence the looking around for code or an algorithm to decrypt RC5-64. Yes we need to be absolutely sure that our algorithm is correct, so we will test it by encrypting something we all know in RC5-64 using another application, then decrypting it using ours. Well, that's the best test I can really think of to prove our app works.

MontyWorm wrote:
It would not be very sporting of Mind Candy to only have a puzzle solvable by brute force, there must be a simpler, more elegant solution


I agree to an extent; This is a silver card so it's designed to be as hard as possible. An elegant solution would really be us using a dictionary attack of known PXC-related words, rather than pure brute-force hacking. This will be built into our app in the code for the key-challenge sequencer - the code on the server that dishes out the 'keywords' to try out. So we'll be both brute-forcing AND dictionary hacking, which increases our chances of success.

This is a relatively big coding project, but thanks to BOINC and the Seti@Home project, and RC-Crypt, we have already got some code to go by.

EDIT: I just tried setting up a project and found out that it needs to be reviewed by a person before its approved - Mon to Fri. We need a UNIX name ( used as a unique identifier for the project; the UNIX name is used to build project-related URLs on the SourceForge.net site, and is used as the subdomain for the web space provided by SourceForge.net to your project. ). As this is a group project, and the fact that we've got a weekend to choose a name, if you have any suggestions for names then can you please post them here?
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Windows, the most successful computer virus in history...


PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:00 am
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Langley Moor
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 86

Right, I left my computer running for a day on this, and 1 billion key attempts took about 18 hours. I started from hhhhhhhh as well, in case anyone is interested. However, I know this will have only have cycled the last 4 letters and done a part cycle of the third as well. So can anyone come up with some starting 3-4 lettersand I'll set my computer on it? That way there's more chance of hitting it, cos I can't think of any 8 letter words starting in 'hhh' Smile

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:12 pm
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beglee
Decorated


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 164

I know this has been mentioned before, but i thought id reiterate it since we now have an app to use. The title of the card "The 13th Labour" doesn't have any reference to the encryption technique (as far as i know, or can someone tell me what it is), so surely the title is a big clue to solving the card (i.e. the TLP card). I imagine that it is a clue to the keyword that was used to encrypt the message, so i think we should be looking into its meaning more and trying to come up with possible keywords to try with the app. I havent looked into it yet myself, and the only thing i remember from this thread about it is that it references a story about Hercules. So, i might, if i have time, look into this idea over the next week, and come up with suggestions to try with the app or download the app and try them myself

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:26 pm
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beglee
Decorated


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 164

So after a quick look on Google and at some of the older posts on this thread, theres only one thing that the 13th labour would seem to point to and that is

rkn_technician wrote:
"The thirteenth labour of Hercules: Stories", which
has 214 pages in the English translation paperback, which would work for 64 refering to the page. If this is the right theory, and if this is the right text, but if the code refers to the original Russian version, that would certainly add another layer of complexity!


So, if anyone has a copy of this book (English or Russian original), could you look up page 64, line 12, word 8 (from the 64/12/8 part of the card), which may refer to the location of the keyword as well as the type of encryption, and post it up for someone to try with the rccrypt app.


[EDIT] I think i found an online English version of the book in a text file here: http://lib.udm.ru/lib/FISKANDER/stories_engl.txt But since its in a text file, we can't look up the 64th page, 12th line etc Sad

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:02 pm
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