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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica

 		So far the 13thlabour client has completed all numerical and a, b and c keys. we are now progressing steadily through the d's

Based on comments made by Mind Candy such as "you have risen to the challenge" and that "you should start this sooner rather than later" and particularly like the interview Michael Smith gave MTV

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1528282/20060410/index.jhtml?headlines=true

Quote:
"I think about 98 percent of the puzzles that we've released on the cards have been solved," he said. But there is an exception. "One is a very complex piece of cryptography that we've calculated would take about 30,000 computers running in tandem several months to solve. They haven't managed to get that one yet."


a distributed client is most likely the correct way to go - although it could be possible to guess the key
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So long and thanks for all the fish! Trout

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:37 pm
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arnezami
Veteran


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 136
Quote:
"I think about 98 percent of the puzzles that we've released on the cards have been solved," he said. But there is an exception. "One is a very complex piece of cryptography that we've calculated would take about 30,000 computers running in tandem several months to solve. They haven't managed to get that one yet."

Those are quite disturbing numbers actually. Since we "only" have roughly 1000 computers. Meaning it would take at least 2 months x 30 = 60 months with our current resources. Crying or Very sad

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:01 pm
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Seej
Unfettered


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 614

 		That depends. If MC calculated their figure based upon an assumption that we would check all possible keys then they're probably closer to the mark. However, Chimera and Guin have made the fairly reasonable assumption that of all the possible ASCII characters that the key could contain, it almost certainly contains exclusively alphanumeric ones, allowing us to skip lots and lots of possible keys.

If we get to 100% and still haven't found an answer then we just go on to try all the other possibilities. Well, except for FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF as I can now exclusively reveal that it doesn't work Wink

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:34 pm
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arnezami
Veteran


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 136
Seej wrote:
That depends. If MC calculated their figure based upon an assumption that we would check all possible keys then they're probably closer to the mark. However, Chimera and Guin have made the fairly reasonable assumption that of all the possible ASCII characters that the key could contain, it almost certainly contains exclusively alphanumeric ones, allowing us to skip lots and lots of possible keys.

Yes. But this (reasonable) assumption is largly based on the idea MC "wouldn't be that cruel". The card nor the hints so far give any indication which (specific) characters to exclude. In fact this quote from Michael Smith seems to be indicating how many different characters MC has used for the password. And it doesn't appear to be just alphanumerical. Crying or Very sad

I wonder if they expected many more computers/participants...

Seej wrote:
If we get to 100% and still haven't found an answer then we just go on to try all the other possibilities. Well, except for FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF as I can now exclusively reveal that it doesn't work Wink


Hasn't going through the entire 256^8 search space already been deemed impractical?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:03 pm
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Jabba
Decorated


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Melbourne.AU

 		the book that received the only 5 cow rating from ditributed.net it that a book that covers the topic of the encryption method used in this card? if it does, then the cows on the card hmay have only served as a hint to get us as far as that book and the explaination of how to approch solving it.
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Ah negative, I am a meat popsicle...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:05 pm
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica
Jabba wrote:
the book that received the only 5 cow rating from ditributed.net it that a book that covers the topic of the encryption method used in this card? if it does, then the cows on the card hmay have only served as a hint to get us as far as that book and the explaination of how to approch solving it.


Yep seems a reasonable idea.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:20 pm
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sackofpotatoes
Veteran


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 86

 		What book are you talking about, Jabba? distributed.net seems to be down...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:36 pm
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Jabba
Decorated


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Melbourne.AU

 		it was mentioned earlier in this thread or the other (13th labour thread) by someone (sorry i forget who). the book is Cracking Des : Secrets of Encryption Research, Wiretap Politics & Chip Design by Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Gilmore (Editor)
found here in the recommended reading page.
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Ah negative, I am a meat popsicle...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:54 pm
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FranG
Boot

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 35

 		Cracking DES
As best I recall, that book was about the purpose-built machine they used to crack DES. It had code to program an EPROM, etc. I can't see how the content could be relevant. I think some people tried page/word references early on.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:35 am
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Jabba
Decorated


Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Melbourne.AU

 		so that machine would not be able to crack this code? just want to tie up the loose thread, so need to know what the 5 cows was refering to and if it was this book.
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Ah negative, I am a meat popsicle...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:39 am
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nomadcelt
Boot

Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 12

 		RC5-64 Cracked
http://www1.distributed.net/pressroom/news-20020926.txt

Is our code not an RC5-64? Are we looking at this way too logically and not enough 'outside of the box?'

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:20 am
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nomadcelt
Boot

Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 12

 		The Client
The Client that we are using to crack this thing?........

Sequential 64-bit codes thrown at encryption....decryption checked for known words?

I think I used a very similar program to break passwords on the ol' BBC Micro days (back them GREAT ol' days). Great to see brute force hasn't changed.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:24 am
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Seej
Unfettered


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 614
arnezami wrote:
Seej wrote:
That depends. If MC calculated their figure based upon an assumption that we would check all possible keys then they're probably closer to the mark. However, Chimera and Guin have made the fairly reasonable assumption that of all the possible ASCII characters that the key could contain, it almost certainly contains exclusively alphanumeric ones, allowing us to skip lots and lots of possible keys.

Yes. But this (reasonable) assumption is largly based on the idea MC "wouldn't be that cruel". The card nor the hints so far give any indication which (specific) characters to exclude. In fact this quote from Michael Smith seems to be indicating how many different characters MC has used for the password. And it doesn't appear to be just alphanumerical. Crying or Very sad

I wonder if they expected many more computers/participants...


Let's hope not..... Sad

arnezami wrote:
Seej wrote:
If we get to 100% and still haven't found an answer then we just go on to try all the other possibilities. Well, except for FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF as I can now exclusively reveal that it doesn't work Wink


Hasn't going through the entire 256^8 search space already been deemed impractical?


Ummm, yes, which is why we're assuming the key's alphanumeric like I said above. Though as I said, we now only need to try ( 256^8 ) - 1 keys now Smile

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:17 pm
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xxfenrirxx
Greenhorn

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 9
Location: FL, USA

 		I was looking into perplex city and I've been following this thread in particular. I have a question, I did a search and didn't see anything. Has anyone mentioned that the cows on the card are quite similar in looks to those on the Whipsmart Ice ( http://www.whipsmartice.com ) website?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:22 am
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica
xxfenrirxx wrote:
I was looking into perplex city and I've been following this thread in particular. I have a question, I did a search and didn't see anything. Has anyone mentioned that the cows on the card are quite similar in looks to those on the Whipsmart Ice ( http://www.whipsmartice.com ) website?


Guin calls all his penguin mates for the impending free fish fest

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:25 am
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