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 Forum index » Meta » Puppetmaster Help
[discussion] Meta Sites
Moderators: imbri
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taozero
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Back in Alaska...

[discussion] Meta Sites

How effective is a meta site, in your opinions? Both in building a player base, and it's affect on the 'alternate reality'-ness of a game?

Does a meta site kill the experience for you? Or does it just build your anticipation?

There have been a few examples of meta sites used, and it seems as though the games that have utilized them have been pretty darn successful.

What do you think?

discuss
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:20 am
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Darkstar
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 256

Well, I think meta sites help the game, if the game is big enough for them. They are a great way of getting new people into the genre, and sites such as ruaware.org help people show others what an ARG exactly is. If someone asks you why the hell you're getting calls from angels at 6am (meheheh) then you can just point them in that direction with one link.

Also, when we see a meta site, we use it, but once the game is underway we tend to forget about it. Which is a good thing. I don't think it detracts from the experience at all, it's just a different way of starting a (hopefully) good game.

My thoughts.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:34 am
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Nightmare Tony
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Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Meadowbrook

At the signpost up ahead...

the next stop...

the Twilight Zone.


Seriously, depending on the game, I like a meta as well. Wildfire meta didnt detrract either. It can also host up the trail or wiki links if needed, and keep a running tab of puzzles going on and sites and things. so it can also bring players up to speed.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:02 am
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C_Brennan
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 236
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

As much as I hate meta pages (though I am apt to use them) I use them because of the legal mumbo jumbo. I am not a large corporation like Audi or Mind Candy or Microsoft, and so I feel a little vulnerable when I'm making a game. I like to make sure that the rules are specifically stated, and the explanation is put forth about the game.

I feel this way because there's not only alot of old players who understand what to do and what not to do in ARGs, but there are the new people who are wandering around aimlessly. And God forbid that one of these new people does something they shouldn't, and that puts me in trouble because I created the game. This way, with the meta site, I can put down the ground rules and say, "Look, I told you. So if you do something stupid that I told you not to do, you can't sue me, because I told you." If it wasn't for sue happy people, I'd steer clear of meta sites.

And, on another note, using a meta site can keep your players up to date with the status of the game's creation (so you aren't waiting on your toes for infinity, like Perplex City) without having to cover it up and be totally hush hush. This way, if people are expecting your game (such as the sequel to Project Gateway) you can keep them happy and in the know, and they can go play other games to their heart's content while they wait for yours.

And, as was said before, it can help teach new people what the game is about, how it's played, and maybe it can also be a small taste of what is to come, so players can decide if they like the world or not and not be disappointed when you get into the thick of things and feel as though they wasted time.

So, if a small break in the reality of the situation can keep my rear away from being sued and my players happy, then I will take that small break.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:00 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

C_Brennan wrote:

So, if a small break in the reality of the situation can keep my rear away from being sued and my players happy, then I will take that small break.


I personally like meta sites as long as I can block them out when I want to. I mean, really, I *do* know that the ARG is a game and I can successfully block that out so why can't I block out a meta site? Wink PMs are giving us a great bit of entertainment after a bunch of hard work and usually money out of their own pocket. I'll gladly accept a meta site so they can feel safe legally and get some more publicity early on.

I don't really mind the small breaks from reality if there is a reason for it, it's all give and take. Like with Heist when I got the OOG calls before the meeting in Chicago. I had to sign all the releases which definitely punctuated the curtain, but hey I got one of the coolest ARG experiences out of it ever. I got to river cruise with a psycho and two zombie mimes as a part of Nisha's team!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:19 pm
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imbriModerator
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

Re: [discussion] Meta Sites

taozero wrote:
There have been a few examples of meta sites used, and it seems as though the games that have utilized them have been pretty darn successful.

What do you think?

discuss


I do not believe that a game needs a meta site in order to be successful. A few of the most notorious flops (Majestic, Push, TerraQuest, NoahBoddy all come to mind) used meta sites. A few of the most succesful games (The Beast, I Love Bees, Lockjaw, Metacortechs, Urban Hunt) did not.

The success is in the game design and the consistancy of the universe that is created. Of course promotion can help but I don't believe that the only form of promotion is a meta site (though it is, perhaps, the easiest).

- b

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:02 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

Re: [discussion] Meta Sites

imbri wrote:
I do not believe that a game needs a meta site in order to be successful. A few of the most notorious flops (Majestic, Push, TerraQuest, NoahBoddy all come to mind) used meta sites. A few of the most succesful games (The Beast, I Love Bees, Lockjaw, Metacortechs, Urban Hunt) did not.


That said, ILB did provide a link to Unfiction on Dana's blog. Unfiction may not have been created by the PMs, but it's definitely a meta site, and one of which Dana should presumably have been unaware.

ILB was a great game, and I certainly don't think they needed to do anything like Heist has, but if they had wanted to, there would have had to have been some sort of meta interaction (even if not a meta site) in order to make it legally feasible.

I'm a staunch proponent of the curtain, but I don't begrudge PMs their meta site if its necessary to do what they want to do.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:08 pm
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rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

An interesting thing about the Heist meta sites are that they weren't there in the beginning - they sort of evolved as the game went on.

At first it was just a small little blurb on stolena3. Then a message went up on the sa3 boards. Then even later the www.artoftheheist.com site came up in its current form.

To me it seems that the meta information grew as the auidence did. More and more people, who weren't at all familiar with this idea, came and needed to be told exactly what it was. It allowed them to feel safe about trying to track down a stolen car. With ILB (and even The Beast) just a few minutes of looking on the site would tell you that "this is not real" but with the storyline of Heist, if you hadn't heard of ARGs, how could you really be sure unless someone told you?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:48 pm
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rose-not logged in
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Meta sites

The Heist meta sites also included the pages on the audi website about the stolen A3. I think that as the game progressed, they realized that sites were information dense and that people needed help following along. On www. Virgilkingofcode. com If you didn't figure out the unfinished game and find the links, you really couldn't make any progress. The LRR site was more accessible, but it included a large amount of past as well as current information.

I know the Urns game, by the same group of Pms as Heist also used an in-game board. I think it helped people follow the story and the clues.

As for ilovebees, I recall that Dana referenced several resources, the Darkforge site and the fireflies wiki ( I think) as well as unfiction on her blog. She knew about these sites because we emailed her the links and people posted them in replies to her blog, making it silly for her to ignore them. For example, when we were struggling to get the 777 phones answered, I recall asking steve if we could give Dana the link to the Darkforge site that had the axons locations and times of the calls. We needed other players to know about that resource so they could know where and when to go and we could get the phones answered. I think that her references to sites that people told her about was believable in-game.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:18 pm
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FLmutant
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL

rowan72 wrote:
An interesting thing about the Heist meta sites are that they weren't there in the beginning - they sort of evolved as the game went on.


That was certainly the intent, and in general I'm fond of a certain level of meta-site in ARGs. The more complex the story becomes, the harder it is I think for an audience to "jump in" the later you get into the game. So the more you can summarize and guide people in, the better. That task becomes more complex (and more important) the later in the game you get, and by giving the community a chance to jump in and organize things first you can make sure your meta also acknowledges them (and re-inforce for people how the audience plays a role an in the narrative, which is the hardest thing for non-ARGed audiences to get initially.)

rose wrote:
I think that as the game progressed, they realized that sites were information dense and that people needed help following along. On www. Virgilkingofcode. com If you didn't figure out the unfinished game and find the links, you really couldn't make any progress.


That's definitely one of the hardest parts, but it's part of what you guys are great at. The stuff the community built were some of the most amazing meta material in the game (god bless the Heist wiki, that even I used for reference sometimes.) Embarassed The richer the story, the more immersive it becomes, but the more difficult it becomes to just "skim". Ultimately, you want it to be satisfying for both kinds of audience, I think, as today's skimmer's is tommorrow's porta-potty commando.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:30 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

FLmutant wrote:
Ultimately, you want it to be satisfying for both kinds of audience, I think, as today's skimmer's is tommorrow's porta-potty commando.

Such an excellent point, and so awesomely stated!
Heheheheheheheheheh.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:42 am
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