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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] Silver #238 Riemann
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Magma
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 119

Just had a crazy idea, maybe they wanted to see evidence of a what defines a proof, rather than a proof itself. Tried:

QED
Quod Erat Demonstrandum

Neither worked. Oh well.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:26 pm
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doublecross
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 588
Location: London, UK

Guin wrote:
why go to the trouble to point out the error in Riemann's initials when the card is riddled with grammar and spelling mistakes?


Hi Guin (nice to meet you on Saturday, by the way),

I don't see any spelling or grammatical mistakes on the card, although the punctuation could do with improving occasionally.

My current thinking on this card, however, is that there is no solution. It is just a way to ensure that the whole set of cards is never solved and Perplexians maintain their superiority over us earthlings.

There are three possibilities:

You have to solve Riemann's hypothesis and Mind Candy know the answer. I think we can discount this one, or they would be $1,000,000 richer.

You have to do something else. OK, I put this one at 25%. The star in the corner says '$1,000,000 prize offered upon solving this puzzle.' Surely 'this puzzle' means this card, rather than the Riemann hypothesis, which would not (until it featured on this card) be called a 'puzzle'. Also, in more than six months no-one has found the suggestion of an alternative puzzle on this card.

You have to solve Riemann's hypothesis and Mind Candy do not know the answer. I put this at 75%. Unfortunately it means that nothing you put in will ever work.
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xx

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:19 pm
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Guin
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doublecross wrote:

Hi Guin (nice to meet you on Saturday, by the way),


You too it was great to actually speak with someone face to face rather than my poor suffering wife who I really dont think cares about Riemann lol let alone understand his theory!

I got to thinking about what we talked about too. Probably the grammar aspect is yet another example of just bad grammar and as such not relevant, so I conceed and put it down to a foolish idea that I will forever forget.

I also think the puzzle aspect is interesting too as it is a theory rather than a p[uzzle.

But for now I think I am happy to say I genuinely have no idea anymore about what I am meant to do with this card lol

I think I ve looked at it too long and am now seeing things that do not exist lol Bang Head
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:56 pm
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fretty
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Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 281
Location: South Yorkshire, England

Just looking at the reply recieved from MC on the thirteenth labour thread and they say that this card is solvable and is not a trick question. So there must be something to do on this card.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:16 pm
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locqust
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Has anybody read the sentinel thread? It does mention the riemann card and that indeed the hypothesis needs to be solved, although this isnt confirmed Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:24 pm
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donstobbart
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Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Cumbria

I know that my suggestions are not lateral, but nothing seems to be working, so.... how about a rendition of the function, using a real prime number. Wouldn't have the first clue where to start to do this though, but by doing that, we could prove the theorum works, even if its not proved for all the prime numbers.

Don
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:21 pm
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downloader7
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Cornwall, UK

I quite like that idea of actually putting in a prime number. But ill make a suggestion of doing it step by step therefore actually showing your proog on how you got there.

Im quite suprised that no one has thought of this.

Nice one donstobbart
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:26 pm
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doublecross
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Remember the maximum length of text it will accept is 1990 characters.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:46 pm
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pheebs
Guest


unrealt87 wrote:
Hey peoples Very Happy

Just got back from the london event, damn what a tiring day! Drool

Anyway, i'm not sure if this another red herring, and feel free to trout if you wish, but i got from the big boss himself from MC, that this card we HAVE to solve the function, one way or the other.

So basically this means that if this is true, you will get three thing from solving this card:

1. The generous 60 points on offer
2. A million dollars
3. A lot of angry mathemations after you Razz

Or the dude coulda been telling fibs to put off off the scent.

Ok, i'm done here, let the trouting commence...


i'm gonna go with the latter point, he was telling fibs. otherwise it may be another 100 years before it gets solved, and whats the (60) point(s) in that?!

if we actually have to solve it, we may as all give up now lol.

i'm gonna keep trying with my clever answers of "this card is doing my head in" and "you can't handle the proof!" Wink

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:46 pm
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GinGenie
Boot

Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 16

Is been said before, but if the message is hidden, then this may help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

I particularly like the idea with the different picture brightnesses, around the equation on my card there does seem to be quite a few extra coloured dots, though they may of course just be printing errors. It might be an idea also to check for slight variations in font size or word spacing, which wouldn't necessarily be visible to the naked eye.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:30 am
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dj Relish
Guest


tiag- if the Hypothesis had to be solved / proven, MC would be advertising the £1M rather than £100,000! dont ya think?

Very Happy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:29 pm
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x
Guest


Ok the problem here is to actually PROOF reinmann Theory, we would have to test every prime possible, or find a way to mathmatically show that every prime would satisfy this equation.

Essentially the issue is thats what this theory was designed to do, "define the ordering of prime numbers as a function"

So how can we proof something using itself? It doesnt work... So we have to break it down further. What is a prime number. How do you determine a number is prime? Is there a mathmatical formula that will determine primeness from any X given? Can we somehow plug the fundamentals of what a prime is and come up with a variable version of all primes?and plug into the Reinmann formula and proof it for the Set of all Prime numbers.

Essentially we need to find a formula that defines prime numbers by their properties. And use that.

This is assuming we are even trying to "actually" proof this.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:00 pm
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x
Guest


Riemann's Theory is basicly defining a property of Prime numbers that no other numbers share.

...
We might as well list properties of Primes.

all Prime numbers are odd.

prime numbers can only be divided by 1 or itself to produce a whole number


http://primes.utm.edu/

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:36 pm
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Jakeo
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 159
Location: Edinburgh

x wrote:
We might as well list properties of Primes.

all Prime numbers are odd.

prime numbers can only be divided by 1 or itself to produce a whole number



If you can list all the properties of primes, you can write an equation to that effect, prove Riemann's Hypothesis, and hence claim the million.

without going into too much detail, most of the relevant information is, as usual, available here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primes

Its a nice idea, but I don't think this is the right track.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:10 pm
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Curlytek
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Melbourne, Australia

x wrote:

all Prime numbers are odd.


Well, all but one of them, 2.

I still think that 'proving' the Reimann Hypothesis is, while an amiable task, not the answer to this puzzle card.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:24 am
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