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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] Silver #238 Riemann
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Phill4269
Greenhorn

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 7
Location: London

A few observations ...

It has been stated that this card is solvable. This means that it can't possibly require a proof of the Riemann Hypothesis. It is possible that the Riemann Hypothesis is unprovable!

Also, any proof will be highly mathematical and will consist of lots of complex equations. I can't see how such a proof could be entered into the web site using the ASCII character set. Any ideas? It is bad enough getting the answers in the correct format fpr other cards. Equations would be a nightmare!!!

The Riemann Hypothesis is not used to find prime numbers. Some algorithms concerning prime numbers assume that the hypothesis is true. One or these is: If it is true then the number of primes below any given value has an upper limit. Another is the Miller-Rabin primality test requires a lot fewer iterations if the Extended Riemann Hypothesis is true.

Another curiosity is that the quote in parentheses
Quote:
As of 2004, the largets known prime was 7235733 digits long!
refers to a Mersenne prime. Mersenne primality testing is done using the Lucas-Lehmer test which does not depend on the Riemann Hypothesis. Two larger Mersenne Primes have since been found. The largest has 9152052 digits!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:06 am
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JayJay
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Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Deepest Darkest East Sussexshire

Right um I've been lookin very closely at those = signs and on further investigation (Scanned the card and looked through a magnifying glass) can reveal that the bottom line is slighty thicker than the top (N=1). This I thought could be an optical illusion cos it is also just about noticeable to the naked eye. The other = sign seems to be equal.

So I was thinkng about some number that you have to feed into the equation based on morse code! Going on the fact there is a dot already obvious to everyone (at the top on the dotted line above Solve the for etc.)

That dot is directly above the letter R (18th letter of the alphabet) significant? Maybe not if it was above a prime then could be a lead...

This maybe a little leftfield but I have had this card for ages and have spent mindless hours investigating at this card.

Oh yes another thought was the dollar sign in the star. Should it have lines through it? Ive spent time investigating this and no luck. I even tried to identify the font using a webpage but no luck to establish wether or not the lines should go through it... bear with me here I was on the search for more lines based on my morse code theory.

I also think Mind Candy must be trying to tell us something cos morse code has been very popular recently (London PCAG). Although this idea has been playing around in my head for months. Yes I should have posted earlier about it.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:18 pm
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Magma
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 119

Some fonts just show the top and bottom of the line extending out of the S of the dollar sign, without showing the line in the middle.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:36 pm
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modern_hero
Decorated

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 159
Location: UK

Just thinking about this card. Sorry if already thought through, but...

If we're supposed to prove/disprove this, then the input page must have some way to check our working, right?

The only way to know if the check was working would be to input a correct working and an incorrect working (for a right answer and a wrong one).

So either someone at mindcandy already knows an answer (why haven't they claimed the CMI prize?) or that's not the way to go.

If you see a flaw, let me know, but I'm gonna think about what else the card could want us to do.

PS- Has this card been subjected to the usual tests? i.e, blacklight, heating, infra red, etc...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:48 am
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locqust
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 545
Location: Gloucestershire UK

Quote:
PS- Has this card been subjected to the usual tests? i.e, blacklight, heating, infra red, etc...


Umm yep, yep, yep and um, yep! All nothing unfortunately.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:22 pm
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skenmy
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Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Essex, England

I had the chance to view this card under a steromicroscope today at school. 4 of us all independantly confirmed that we could see some kind of patterning (and we each made out the letter H) in the dots at the top of the card. The microscope was only standard school issue - and thus not very powerful, but there was definitely *something* there.

The area we saw it was just beneath the silver panel.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:35 pm
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RoyalRumble
Greenhorn

Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Netherlands

I just attempted a solve by leaving the answer box blank. Why fill in anything if there is no solve?

Didn't work. OBVIOUSLY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:38 pm
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modern_hero
Decorated

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 159
Location: UK

locqust wrote:
Quote:
PS- Has this card been subjected to the usual tests? i.e, blacklight, heating, infra red, etc...


Umm yep, yep, yep and um, yep! All nothing unfortunately.


RoyalRumble wrote:
I just attempted a solve by leaving the answer box blank. Why fill in anything if there is no solve?

Didn't work. OBVIOUSLY


Dang and Dang. Right, I'll get back to reading 'Stalking the Riemann Hypothesis'... only 19 pound from my local bookstore and so far interesting but useless.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:28 pm
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bertyb
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Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 128
Location: London

A couple of thoughts on this card I have had last night and today.

Firstly, came across this website:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/cb0a61841f3ed80c?oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Secondly, thinking laterally a bit, Von's hint is in form of a website link and on the bottom of the card is a website link....perhaps the answer needs to be a website link in the solve box that links to the proof.

I have tried the link above and a couple of others people have posted in the forum this morning with no luck.

As for something showing under a microscope, I had a look last night and couldnt spot anything. I am still of the mindset that this card is simpler than we think though.
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Intriguing!!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:26 am
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donstobbart
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Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Cumbria

I stuck my card on the radiatior for an hour and then in the freezer when I saw nothing. Nothing. I avoided the microwave! Laughing

Don
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:14 am
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bertyb
Veteran

Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 128
Location: London

Another website I have stumbled across:

http://www.musicoftheprimes.com/riemann_hypothesis.htm

Just puts a different spin on everything - but links to the $1,000,000 puzzle and riemann hypothesis.
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Intriguing!!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:40 am
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remiel
Kilroy

Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Seattle, Washington

I just received this card tonight.

On close inspection, it appears that there is a low contrast stereogram (or some kind of shape(s)) hidden in the gradient portion at the top of the card, though I can't quite make it out. It could be a side effect of the ink drying or other processing step, but I thought I'd mention it.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:49 am
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica

remiel wrote:
I just received this card tonight.

On close inspection, it appears that there is a low contrast stereogram (or some kind of shape(s)) hidden in the gradient portion at the top of the card, though I can't quite make it out. It could be a side effect of the ink drying or other processing step, but I thought I'd mention it.


I have been looking at this card and nearly giving myself tunnel vision. I am almost certain (having scanned and projected this image on a wall) that there are very subtle shadings on the letters but i cant quite put my finger on it. Its almost like their is a magic picture (those things you stare at and go cross eyed) hidden in the upper portion of the text. I can almost make out certain letters or something. I am almost wondering if its not a wave pattern of some knid based on the RZF.

Well this probably only confirms my madness
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:26 am
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skenmy
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Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Essex, England

This is exactly what we saw with a microscope. I'm pretty sure there is *something* there - but not sure what.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:07 am
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Langley Moor
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 86

With a high res scan of it, and viewing it in Microsoft Office Document Imaging (gives the clearest picture for some reason), I'm sure I can see something on there - possibly words? Can't quite make it out though, and I'm getting serious eye strain from spending so long on this today!

Here's the file, hope somebody else can work it out....
Scan0001.tif
Description 
tif

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Filename  Scan0001.tif 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:47 am
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