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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] Silver #238 Riemann
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Si
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Bombieri theorem

A verbal description of this result is that it addresses the error term in Dirichlet's theorem on arithmetic progressions, averaged over the moduli q up to Q. For a certain range of Q, which are around √x if we neglect logarithmic factors, the error averaged is nearly as small as √x.

This is quite unobvious, and without the averaging is about of the strength of the Generalized Riemann Hypothesis (GRH).

If you want to see the equation look up Enrico Bombieri on the Wiki and the equation is on there

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:25 pm
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Guest
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Si wrote:
How can anyone solve the card when we don't know what the question is?


We do know the question. The question is, "Is the Riemann Hypothesis valid?" Just because no one knows what the right answer is, it doesn't mean there is none. Someday there might be. For all we know, someone who gets this card decides to grow up and become a mathematician who one day can answer that question.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 pm
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themandotcom
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Anonymous wrote:


We do know the question. The question is, "Is the Riemann Hypothesis valid?" Just because no one knows what the right answer is, it doesn't mean there is none. Someday there might be. For all we know, someone who gets this card decides to grow up and become a mathematician who one day can answer that question.


That's me! Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:08 pm
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ER123456
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Has everyone given up on this card?

I had some thoughts which I posted many months ago - and ignored. May I post them again?

1) There is a solution to this card - i.e. a piect of text to enter
2) It is not a proof of the Rieman Hypothesis (as the text box doesn't take formulae, and MC dont have a proof)

So the puzzle is to demonstrate that we have proved the hypothisis, rather than prove it.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I suspect that the answer is of the form "I have the cheque" or "I won the prize" the puzzle is to find out the correch phrase to use.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:18 am
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Bakers_12
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MC have said in the past the you do need to prove the hypothesis to solve the card.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:37 am
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fretty
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Quote:
MC have said in the past the you do need to prove the hypothesis to solve the card.



But that could be what they want us to think. I'm not denying that we maybe have to prove the hypothesis but what a perfect idea for a puzzle, a hidden puzzle showcased in an obvious near impossible one, they can almost insist that we have to prove the hypothesis, just to stear us away from the real puzzle. The riemann hypothesis is the perfect question to pose for this situation.

This could all have been planned from the start, to lead us into thinking that the Riemann hypothesis was the puzzle that needed solving.

I'll stop there, starting to sound like a conspiracy nut.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:52 pm
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Fuseunderground
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fretty wrote:

But that could be what they want us to think. I'm not denying that we maybe have to prove the hypothesis but what a perfect idea for a puzzle, a hidden puzzle showcased in an obvious near impossible one, they can almost insist that we have to prove the hypothesis, just to stear us away from the real puzzle. The riemann hypothesis is the perfect question to pose for this situation.

This could all have been planned from the start, to lead us into thinking that the Riemann hypothesis was the puzzle that needed solving.


An interesting idea, but why would MC not want us to solve the puzzle?

My thoughts are that they put this card in to pretty-much be certain that there would be a card left to solve at the end of the (first) game.
and also to promote an interest in the topic (providing info on a much harder topic and much bigger prize)

Rich
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:42 pm
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sirichj
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But why would they want a card not solved? It doesn't interfere with the cube finding so I don't see the logic behind giving us a puzzle that will never be solved, unless Clay have paid them to feature it ?? Who knows.

Personally I don't like puzzles with no solution, it seems a little unfair especially as the cards are now selling for £50 plus with no solution? Come on MC at least give us a fighting chance

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:00 pm
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fretty
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There might still be a solution, I think MC want us to think that there is no solution.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:08 am
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sirichj
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I hope there are no cards like this in season 2, it's a little demoralising spending hours researching something that has no solution !

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:09 am
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aliendial
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Why would you spend more than 10 minutes researching this card? I agree re 13th Labor and Shuffled which actually HAVE solutions that have not been found. The endless chatter about Riemann's, which has no solution, is effort better spent elsewhere.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:18 pm
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sirichj
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aliendial wrote:
Why would you spend more than 10 minutes researching this card?


Why bother researching any of the cards then? Wouldn't you expect to have to do research to find out answers even if the answers are that there isn't one like in this case. Anyone can look on the forum and read someone elses hard work, and in this case conclude that it can't be solved but it still takes research to do that doesn't it?

I know a lot of people just go on the forums to get answers to the cards but the whole point of the game is doing research yourself and helping others until you achieve the answer together, not just to take the glory from someone elses work.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:10 pm
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Bendover
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Riemann

I think at the time this card came out MC was aware of Louis DeBranges' work and the possibility of him solving Riemann. The fact that DeBranges' work failed to pan out, kind of left the question unanswerable for now if not for the forseeable future. Question

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:41 am
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x
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sirichj wrote:
aliendial wrote:
Why would you spend more than 10 minutes researching this card?


Why bother researching any of the cards then? Wouldn't you expect to have to do research to find out answers even if the answers are that there isn't one like in this case.


Back when i originally made a stink with some others over the validity of this card as a puzzle, and its solvability. This was my original point. No matter what people say, this IS a puzzle in a big game of puzzles. Which means people would logically work on it. ... The idea is this puzzle was set before us to solve, just like the other 255 cards. So SOMONE is spending more than 10 minutes wracking their brains against this puzzle. AND if thats the case AND there is no solution today to be entered, then SOMONE is wasting their time.

Sirichj is right. Why work on any of the cards rather than this one? IS this "puzzle" a puzzle? or just some worthless piece of paper they threw into the deck of puzzles to confuse and annoy us, and ultimately make us waste a lot of time trying to do the so called impossible puzzle.

The props to mathmatics is nice and all, but this is a puzzle game, ... Ill repeat... ITS A GAME. Games do not imply a lifetime of wasted years on brutal math. Thats the realm of Doctorates in Mathmatics, people who are paid lots in grants to keep them working on these problems for their whole lives.

Either say this card isnt a puzzle and its a waste of time. Or let whoever wants, to work on this endlessly in whatever way they see fit. ... Thats all i can say. Either its part of the game, and people should be wracking their brains, or it shouldnt be part of the game. ... Simple as that.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:15 am
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Astrix
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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Being a late joiner to PXC, I haven't had anything worthwhile to add to these forums yet that hadn't seemed to have already been written; but I don't like being labelled a lurker, so decided I had to write something, anything, and hopefully that will change my posting tag.

"What is the secret message? (The reward is the satisfaction of knowing the answer)." That said, I have to believe that there is an answer to this puzzle and that MindCandy didn't sneak an unsolvable card into the game.

The quote, by the way, is from the Clay Mathematics Institute website, in a section called Prime Numbers and Cryptography. On the same page they have their own puzzle: http://www.claymath.org/posters/primes/

Quote:
1234567 = 127 x 9721

1020030004000050000060000007 = ? x ? x ? ...

public key = 5, 519208104502047440191322024032 461128846299254256408973265508 51544998255968235697331455544257

secret message = 243689518774052214930089506033 998596335782879839107051625360 7140448055114932771201027350325, 323915666133187777174633743307 665741495158513587387621667442 84515065903121845841724822236676 = ???

How do you know if your answer is correct? Use the algorithm and the table for converting text to numbers and vice versa. If the result makes any sense at all, you almost certainly have the correct answer.

The algorithm and table are on this separate page: http://www.claymath.org/posters/primes/rsa.php

Could CM and MC be in on this one together somehow? Maybe the solution to this Clay Math puzzle (and not the Clay Math Riemann challenge) is the answer MC is looking for.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:10 pm
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