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[Enigmaster]

Hmm, an interesting take on that old puzzle - that it had a double meaning.

For those that don't know, we initially solved it as being that you 'couldn't put stock' in that image itself, and you had to print it out and physically 'hold it in your hands' where an 'error' would be printed leading to the error logs (see wiki for info).

Weather it is intended to refer to our current situation is debatable though.

[uneasyjd]

Well, it could shed some light on why Monica used the word 'held'...

[jsweby]

I agree, it was the "never held it" that really rung bells about this old quote.

[Cpt.Manory]

Sitting here reading this entire thread, im going to go with the move that the second team comes along after the cube has been stolen, find a 'hologram' (or other visual device) and find it to be a fake.
And in regards to the puzzle on the prvious page, im going to have to go with the double meaning theory. It just seems to fit to me, im going to have to have a closer read and see what exactly links and what dosent, but at the moment i think its relavent.

[Leeravitz]

Hmm...all interesting spec, but, as ever, I imagine we're missing out quite a lot of background detail in order to make our theories fit. Allow me to recap:

1. What we've just been told is that Monica said 'We never held it. It was already gone.' That's certainly provocative. But it's very open to interpretation. Might it be nothing more than an acknowledgment that the theft team never 'held on' to the Cube once it was stolen? Rather, as soon as they had liberated it from its case, it relocated? Why do I follow this line of reasoning...well...

2. We know that the Cube was on prominent public display until the day it was stolen...it certainly seems doubtful that an early departure would have gone unnoticed (unless a tremendous hologram *was* standing in for the real 'Cube')

3. If Sente told the truth, and we are to assume that real experts separately verified his claims, then, a month or so after the theft, Perplexian technology was able to trace the Cube to Earth.

4. Now, I find it hard to credit i) the idea that the thieves unknowingly stole a replacement Cube, but then totally failed to pick up on Sente's prominent anouncement that the traces pinpointed that the Cube had been transfered to Earth, and in no way acted upon this information ii) that if the thieving mission had failed dismally and conspicuously in the first place, it then took a year for any significant 'clean - up', or reprisals against incompetents to be taken - implying, rather, that the theft team thought they had achieved their aims satisfactorily. So, might it not have been the case that the transferal to Earth was intentional (perhaps even only if sending the Cube to earth was effectively putting it into a 'safe house' for storage). This transferal would have been overseen, one assumes, by the 'mastermind', 'V', and the theft team's skills had been used, rather, to gain access in the first place. Thus, 'they' (Monica, Holyoke and 'C') never held [as in 'possessed', 'safe housed' etc.] the Cube - rather, 'it was already gone', because it had been sent to Earth immediately after they had reached it. As I said above, I assume this transferal was intentional, rather than accidental, otherwise why weren't the theft team in fear of their lives for the remainder of the year, having ballsed up so excruciatingly? And that would also explain why soon afterwards, it can be worked out that the Cube had gone to Earth.

4. It then appears evident (to me, at least) that the wave of murders we've seen committed recently are direct responses to threats to blow the whistle on the theft set - up. The major mystery, in a way, is what was Holyoke's tech being used for - it was maunfactured (it would appear) only a short time before he stashed it, and for this reason, it does not appear that it was either utilised in the theft, or, indeed, in existence at the time of the theft. So was it being used for some other purpose connected to the Cube (retrieving it directly? pinpointing an exact location, so that the loot could be retrieved?)? Now maybe Holyoke was killed because he knew too much about this delicate operation? Or maybe he was threatening to black - mail V by revealing the tech to the authorities? Or maybe V simply thought that the authorities were getting too close to Holyoke's smuggling operation, and might soon stumble upon the tech for themselves, and that needed pre - empting? Whatever, it didn't succeed. Holyoke got killed, and 'V' (or whoever) turned the Five of Cups upside down looking for the stash, but never found it [I assume].

Remember that all this has been initiated by Monica, who has told Pietro to investigate into Holyoke, who has then told his contact, Helena Frye, that there's a lead to be pursued. So, Monica is definitely the 'whistle blower'. But we must assume that she wasn't felt to be a threat beforehand, otherwise she'd have been dealt with. She's just reached the point at which she doesn't think she can stand having been a party to the theft any longer. So, she sets Pietro on the trail on her behalf. Then Holyoke gets topped [and I suppose thinking about it, that 'murder' could even have been accidental, following an argument], and Monica ultimately gets Pietro dealt with, and, then, in essence, she's pinpointed as the mole, and gets hers, also. None of this implies to me that the murders were part of a heavily premeditated 'cover up' (because there was a double - cross; or a failed initial theft or whatever); rather that they are essentially 'ad hoc'.

[sledgecallier]

[Leeravitz]

Clearly, I've been away too long, and I'm misremembering. Sorry! According to my own last summation (which is the 'theft' part of the 'conspiracy' section on the Wiki), the equipment was *STOLEN* sometime after Jan. 1st, 2005. That's not, of course, the same as it's being manufactured after Jan. 1st, 2005.

I suspect I got confused here: I was working for a time on the idea that the team had lifted the Cube, kept it stored somewhere and then used plates and ioniser to transport it at a later date. That doesn't make much sense though, because the Cube was on earth by February 2004, and the tech was only lifted from the Academy in early 2005. Now, I suppose that might indicate two possibilities:

1) The tech was used in the theft, although it was in situ, rather than brought in by the gang. Then, they left it lying around in the Academy, and only tried to move the stuff on when the heat started coming down. But I still find this a bit hard to swallow.

2) The tech was not directly involved in the theft itself, but may be involved in some kind of recalibration/retrieval project. This might explain why it wasn't removed for something like a year after the Cube was stolen - although tech belonging to the Academy used in the theft would have been hiding in 'plain sight' as it were all this time, I still find it hard to credit that a bunch of professional thieves would leave pieces of their equipment behind voluntarily [for a year!] when they would be well aware of a huge investigation going on into the theft for several months afterward.

3) I suppose yet another alternative is that this removal of tech was no 'theft' at all - that was assumed to be the case because Holyoke was a petty crim, and the Academy reported significant tech missing. But what if this had been passed on from a department by a sympathetic Academy insider. I hate to point the finger, but Garnet Reed's a military specialist, and we already have a plausible link to Monica and Pietro. With that said, I'm still not convinced that Garnet is 'V' - simply because I figure he's too high - profile a figure for Monica not to have recognised him, when he 'employed' her.

Now, as to where I got that date from in the first place, I'm baffled to be honest...There must have been something that made me deduce the problem in the first place.

As it stands (barring other evidence to the contrary), the most logical pattern behind theft and murders, therefore, seems to me:

a) Theft team are recruited together under 'V's auspices - none of them know each other, but each is an expert in their chosen field. They cannot identify 'V' either.

b) Theft is executed on Ball Night. The technological know - how of the team ensures that the theft proceeds smoothly. [Probably] Holyoke is utilising the Klebold Plates and Reynolds Ioniser (themselves taken from the Academy military department?). This equipment is used to effect a transferal of the Cube to Earth under 'V's guidance. Fran Mendling either catches the thieves and pays the price, or is in on the theft, and killed to silence her.

c) The team escape via the Catacombs (?) and then split up.

d) Holyoke stashes the tech behind an EM buffer at the Five of Cups, prior to an pre - arrangement. He will (somehow or other) fence this material on so that it cannot be traced. But, for some reason, (blackmail?), he doesn't choose to hurry himself.

e) Sente declares that his team have discovered that the Cube has been physically relocated to Earth.

f) A year passes. Monica, feeling she no longer withstand her own guilt, gets in touch with Pietro in an attempt to use him as a proxy to help blow the whistle on the whole operation.

h) In order to show Pietro that she is dealing in earnest, Monica tells him to investigate the Five of Cups and Holyoke, her old associate. This Pietro does, in addition bringing in his police contact, Helena Frye. Holyoke's establishment comes under close scrutiny.

i) Fearing that the cache is about to be found, 'V'(?) [or another associate know to Holyoke] comes to the Five of Cups, stays after hours, kills Holyoke in a tussle, and tries to find the tech but comes away empty handed [unless we are to assume that they stole away only the most vital component of the stash, and left behind the other material to be discovered - but that seems unlikely - as we know from Kurt, the Klebold Plates and Reynolds Ioniser are unusual enough in themselves to excite some degree of comment and further investigation...]

j) Thus, Holyoke comes to a bad end. The police find the stash and impound the tech. Pietro begins serious correspondence with Monica, but she is increasingly aware that she is now herself being hounded.

k) Eventually, Pietro's association with Monica is pinned down by their opponents, and he is 'got to' [possibly by someone he knows, possibly not].

l) Utilising our ingenuity, we locate Monica and try to draw more from her...but this blows her cover to some extent, and she ,too, is killed.

[dawh25]

I would like to point out a serious flaw with this whole arrangement.

According to the wiki, Holyoake was murdered before April 26, 2005, when the Sentinel article announced the murder. Monica first contacted Pietro on May 6, 2005, after Holyoake was dead!

That throws a lot of things out the window.

It seems that Monica came to Pietro in response to BH kicking the bucket and I believe that all of the members of the team had been under surveillance by the organizers, watching for them to step out of line.

We really need to keep the facts straight if we're going to discover the truth.

That out of the way, here are my thoughts on Monica's last message and what that means.

We still do not know how the theft proceeded. Did they move as a unit, or were they in separate places and each had their own task to complete on their own? To say "[w]e never held it, it was already gone" leaves us more questions. Who represents "we?" The lesser members of the group, or the whole team?

I believe that either they were a distraction for the real thieves or that V arrived at the Cube before the others and took it first, or something along those lines. It would seem that the members completed their appointed tasks and then, when things started to go sour, it was time for the masterminds to unload the useless and telling baggage (pun intended.) That was my interpretaion of the proceedings. Why else would Monica send Pietro after the Third Power if they didn't actually steal the Cube, especially since they are so dangerous?

We don't know why Holyoake was murdered, but that brings me to another point. Though I cannot find the reference identifying the date of the equiptments theft, if we are to assume that they were stolen in January 2005, then Holyoake could not have taken them with him when they escaped through the catacombs. (I have to say this escape seems reasonable, if you know where you're going, you can lose anyone trying to follow you down there and almost no one knows where all of the paths lead to.)

I believe that as long as C, if she is still alive, will remain so as long as she keeps her mouth shut, which she seems to be doing fairly well currently, whichever the case may be. Admittedly, this would be much easier for her to achieve in one of those states, but we can always hope...

I hope this can set a few things straight in order of events and help us move forward.

EDIT: Oops! Reread the dates, turns out Monica was paid before the (attempted?) heist.

[uneasyjd]

What's the consensus - would it be worth the risk to ask Violet to see what she can dig up on S. Marchant?

[Enigmaster]

I'll support asking Vi if only to show that Marchant is unrelated to current events - and I suppose it's possible that he is related though (though I still highly doubt it), so we might as well follow it up for consistency. Go on, prove me wrong

I'll drop her a mail now - I don't ever think I have before now, actually. Wierd.

Hmm, what's this? Several posts written to essay standard? Leeravitz must have returned WB dude.

[Leeravitz]

Credit where credit is due - my assumptions must be wrong, if we take the actual given dates into account. Having said this, I guess we just rearrange the pattern of effect - response:

1.Holyoke is murdered *first*, and an attempt made by the murderer to find the hidden tech (this probably proves fruitless)...

2. Pietro and the Sentinel team report on the murder's aftermath (he has presumably been given the lead, entirely innocently, by his contact, Helena Frye).

3. Monica reads about the investigation in the Sentinel (?) - she is getting nervous because Holyoke has been killed, and she wants to try and ensure herself against a reprisal. She deduces Pietro is the man to talk to, and initiates a contact with him a couple of weeks after Holyoke is killed.

4. As a pledge of good faith, Monica reveals the location of the stolen tech to Pietro's team - the mystery here is then: how does Monica know about this stash in the first place? Did Holyoke confide in her? Did the theft team have a reciprocal arrangement? If the latter is the case, then why did the murderer fail to find the tech if they were themselves a member of the theft team (surely they'd know where it was, and how it was guarded?). Or were they looking for something else entirely? Or was the whole murder made to look like a break - in as a smoke screen?

5. Events between Pietro and Monica thereafter take their course.

Hmmm...seems fairly straighforward when we put it like that. Of course, I still maintain that the biggest anomaly is the fact that, if someone wanted to put the theft team out of commission (permanently), it took them the best part of a year to start getting their act together. Well, unless they were spending a very long killing 'C' and we just haven't unearthed the evidence of that yet!