unforum

[Law of Five]

Things are moving fast.

The newest pic is one of Thomas Paine, the author of The Rights of Man.

[url] http://earlyamerica.com/portraits/paine.html[/url]

The arrow which reads 'of man' is on the right, which is a clue if you don't know Paine's face (somehow I did).

The image is called noburke.jpg (have to work on this), and the page is called 'Pbafgvghgvba' (see Morphium's excellent observation on this being 'constiitution' in rot13). I'm going to start work on the Old Red Lion 1970 thing now...

Law of Five

[kylegumby]

[Besot]

I told you...

[Morphium]

a google search for "thomas paine" "red lion" 1970 yielded this:

http://www.kxrlg.org.uk/history/timeline.pdf

Seems to contain some relative content, especially around the 1970s.

[Law of Five]

OK, here is my little map of London showing both of the maps featured so far and points of interest that we have identified. Hopefully this will help us a little bit:

http://tinyurl.com/cqz3j

Right frame: map 1, Tudor London (I am your starting point)
Left frame: map 2, back of notebook (where is I)

1. Newton is pointing here - London Bridge or the Monument

2. Left arm of compass in the Thames

3. Shadow of compass' vertex, just south of the Bank Tube station

4. Right arm of compass in Monument Street

5. Blake born in Soho

6. Blake dies on the Strand

7. Newton's statue at the British Library adjacent to St Pancras Station

8. The Angel, Islington

9. Newton's grave, Westminster Abbey (off map)

10. The London Eye (off map)

Take a look, see what you think... I need to think about this a bit more, but I have 2 initital observations:

a. Islington seems to be taking us in a clockwise direction around central London, starting at London Bridge/Monument which is the starting point which Newton gives us and proceeding west into Blake territory and then north to the British Library at Euston and then over to the Angel Tube station, Islington. Could we be describing a circle? And where is the centre?

b. the Northern Line is likely to be important, as it includes the following stations: Monument, London Bridge, Euston (British Library) and Angel.

Keep on looking...

Law of Five

[Rogi Ocnorb]

It appears the Old Red Lion is but a 1 minute walk from the Angel Underground.
http://tinyurl.com/c5omf
Mayhaps someone is to take the tube to the Angel station and proceed to the theatre (The sign on the Paine picture reminds me of the "Way Out" exit signs I saw in the underground some 20 years ago.)
I nominate Graeme.

Oh. And if the scribe's duties should ever entail picking teams...

Dibs on Law!
Dude, you blow my mind.

[Law of Five]

More map-type reflections...

We start where Newton's finger is pointing, at the north end of London Bridge, or close to the Monument Tube Station on the first map. The I in 'I am your starting point' is Isaac Newton, more specifically where he is indicating.

The next step is the British Library on the second map, close to Euston station, where Isaac Newton's statue is. This is where 'I' is.

The third step is clearly the Angel Tube station in Islington.

So we have clues adjacent to three stations on the Northern Line, except they're not in the order of travel, and we have to be westbound through (or out of) the Angel, Islington. Check out the map http://www.afn.org/~alplatt/tube.html to see the stations on the black line. You can see if you want to travel from Monument to Euston to Angel, you either have to double back or else start by going south to and then doubling back north again when the split line joins together again.

Still working on where Paine takes us and how Blake fits in, apart from as the artist of Newton as Divine Geometer. Nice find on the Old Red Lion Theatre in Islington, btw... But why is it Tom Paine?

Still thinking...

Law of Five

[Rogi Ocnorb]

I was going to postulate more on the Burke thing, till I saw Kylegumby's post.
There is a Kathy Burke who was born in and still lives in Islington and has been associated closely with the Old Red Lion for a long time. She was born in 1964, so the 1970 thing doesn't seem to go anywhere.
Maybe we're supposed to contact her (Or anyone but her if we take the "noBurke" clue literally).
It's a real stretch and I think Kylegumby's on a whole lot cleaner path, but I thought I'd get it out there.

[Law of Five]

As a Brit exile living in Canada, I'd like to point out that 'burk' has an special meaning in the UK, as it can describe a stupid, clumsy or ignorant person. eg. if a large person bumps into you in a Tube station without apologising, you might describe them as a 'bit of a burk'. So "noburke" could refer to the fact that Paine was something of a smarty-pants! Burke also seems to have been the antithesis of Paine and so 'noburke' might be a clue leading us to Paine (if you didn't recognise him or get the Rights of Man clue). The other Burke that comes to mind is William Burke, one half of Burke and Hare, the famous 19th century Edinburgh grave robbers.

Personally, I think the Burke-Paine link is the most likely, but I need to check up on what Paine did and where he went in London...

Law of Five

[Law of Five]

After midnight here in western Canada, so it's time for me to hand over to the Triskabiblios day shift in the UK and western Europe. I think we've come a long way today. I hope there is more analysis and maybe another page on the site tomorrow.

3 reflections before I turn the lights out:

1. William Blake is buried in Islington, in a little cemetery called Bunhill Fields, which is just south of the Old Street Tube Station. This area is shown at the top of the Tudor London map (map 1).

2. I've been digging around to find a link between Tom Paine, London and Islington, but to no avail. I've brushed up on his biography (he died in obscurity in New York and his bones were lost) but nothing is coming up. Maybe a sharper mind can dig out the link. The Old Red Lion seems to refer to the Theatre of the same name just south of the Angel Tube stop, but I've had a look at their program this month and there doesn't seem to be any Paine-related material.

Check out: http://www.oldredliontheatre.co.uk/ and do some digging in case I missed something.

Not sure about the 1970 reference - was the Theatre founded then? The Rights of Man was written in 1791, which is close, I suppose...

3. Seeing as Isaac Newton was the key to steps 1 and 2, he may be involved in step 4, and there is a link to Tom Paine:

From: http://www.americanpatrol.com/04-FEATURES/040531-MEMORIAL-DAY-2004/GLENNPAINE.html

While in college many years ago, about 1960 as I recall, I had taken courses in phyics and calculus when I enrolled in a American Literature class. Reading "The Age of Reason," I was struck by Paine's (1737 - 1809) use of language in describing the struggle between the force of the King of England and that of the Colonies. This prompted me to write a term paper arguing that Paine and others of our founding fathers had read Newton (Principia Mathematica, 1687) and were greatly influenced by him. I had seen no other source that made this argument. My instructor was very impressed.

This morning as I was preparing the feature on the Founding Fathers, and Tom Paine, I came across a lecture that included the following passage:

"A deist manifesto to the core, Paine acknowledged his debt to Newton and declared that nature was the only form of divine revelation, for God had clearly established a uniform, immutable and eternal order throughout creation."

http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/paine.html

For the first time in more than 40 years, I learned that I was right about Tom Paine and Sir Isaac Newton.

Night-night, all

Law of Five

[sollune]

YAY! The threads got moved!

/me dances a happy dance and mods

Oh and Law, you rock!

[Rogi Ocnorb]

I'm packin' it in for the night, as well.
Just wanted to throw another tangent into the mix. That being that maybe this newest page is more of a message to us than anything else.
In studying some of Paine's quotes, we have:

[Greyling]

Not sure if it's related, but it seems that among the many guided tours of London Angel Walks' tour "Charles Dickens and Islington" passes a monument to Thomas Paine who is said to have written his "Rights of Man" in a local Islington pub.

I'll try to find an adress for the monument, but till then:

The cached reference: http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:zviIZXiUHXkJ:www.angelwalks.co.uk/pages/pictures.htm+old+red+lion+thomas+paine&hl=en

The monument up close: http://www.angelwalks.co.uk/images/dickenswalk/DSCF0003.JPG
The following is carved into the monument: "Lay then the axe to the roots and teach governments humanity."

So far no adress found, but apparently the monument is easily found by turning left after exiting the Angel Islington Station, and then before the traffic lights through an arch there's a courtyard with the statue (reference http://www.wotson.com/nl/p00.html)

Oh, and the Angel Inn is located at St. John Street #420 3-5, Islington High St
More if slightly confusing info as to which inn is which from the wikipedia reference listed by Moongazer on the previous page

[Moongazer]

[kitkatgirl]

Again, should be working but instead I have been looking more into Thomas Paine.