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ItWasntMeISwear
Unfettered

Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 503
Location: Illannoys, USA

Omnie wrote:
In my time here, I actually only remember these starting to pop up after ILB, with the large infusion of enthusiastic new players, which, if true, would be the opposite of what you describe.


Since you've been here much longer then I have, you would know the answer to that more then I would.

I was making the assumption that the media coverage and corporate interest surrounding this genre has increased as each new corporate sponsored game has been created or successfully concluded. And since there seems, from looking at the "Media" section of this forum, to be a lot of coverage surrounding such games that that would result in a form of maturity, from a start-up genre to one of potential growing prosperity.

That's what I meant by the word "fledgling". The point that I am trying to get to is whether this trend of "no budget" games should continue because of the many eyes that are now watching this genre, compared to the eyes that were trained on this genre before ILB.

If I was seeing more "no budget" games coming to a successfull conclusion, I would have a different opinion on the subject. But that's not the case here. "Freeweb" might as well be a translation for "Caution: Implosion May Occur".

Now, I'll go against my way of thinking and say that it doesn't matter if these new PMs use a free-site or a paid for site. If it's going to crash and burn then how much money the PM spends won't make much of a difference in the end. However, in my own personal opinion, I am much more apt to finish something that I have invested money into then not.

I fully believe in the fact that the grassroot PMs are the future corporate sponsored PMs. How are these new PMs supposed to learn what makes a game successfull and what does not unless they try it out for themselves? How are they supposed to gain the respect of the community if they don't try to create one themselves? How are they supposed to grow as PMs without making a few mistakes along the way?

I have read posts that include such advice to aspiring PMs as "read the posts in past games to see what made the games successfull" when refering to how to go about making a game successfull. But what those same people fail to tell them is the amount of time and effort that continuously goes into creating a game and seeing it through til the end. They don't tell them that you better not plan on having any sort of life outside of the game and your real "job", because you will not have time for anything else while your game is running, especially if you decide to go it alone.

A team helps, but it is still very time consuming.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:52 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

Re: Two things

ItWasntMeISwear wrote:


2) Lack of funding. There are so many aspects to creating a game that is "believable" that it would take me hours to go over all of them. But one of them is creating web-sites that are not located on Freewebs, MySpace, or any of the other free web hosting sites. This, ofcourse, takes money. And the more things that you want to add to your game (phone calls, real life interactions, videos, etc.) the more money it's going to cost to make. Especially if you are trying to make as many non-internet related activities accessible to as many people as possible.

Brochures? Money. Postage? Money. Long distance phone calls? Money. Permits to film in your area? Money. Insurance to cover the actors (hired or not) that are going to be in the videos? Money. Gas to travel from one Real Life meeting to the next? Money. A hotel room to stay at while you are recovering from the previous days travels? Money. Video camera? Money. Video tapes? Money. The list goes on and on until you are running yourself into a pile of money that you just don't have.

But, you want to make a great game... and sometimes puzzles and freewebs just don't cut it.


While that may be true, there are resources out there in the ARG-immervive community to help add those realistic touches. There are many services that will give free hosting to you for registering a domanin name through them. Not a free thing, but certainly you can find resonably costing ones out there. Several people in the community have also offered to host grassroots sites for free, to encourage those PMs with a small budget to produce a game. Not all videos require actors that require payment, not all locations require permits to film (just those that are disruptive to commerce or traffic, I think). Not all locations require payment to be used as the setting. There are plenty of people who are listed in the "Recruiting" thread that you CAN produce a quality video without breaking your budget. There is music that is old enough that you can use it without worry about copywrite/royalties - i.e. classical music, creative commons licenses, friends, etc. that background music doesn't need to break your budget.

The point here is to learn to use the resources that are available to this community in an effective manner. You can put together a quality game on a shoestring budget. You just have to be willing to do the legwork to put it together. Yet another reason to not "go it alone" when developing a game.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:25 am
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HaxanMike
Veteran


Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Don't have time to respond to everyone right now -- I'll post more later, but I want to say that the budget for Blair Witch was raised by us with NO money but what we had in pocket. If you want to do something and you need some money then raising it is part of the process -- if you aren't raising $100 when you need it, then you really aren't making an ARG, right? I don't think it is appropriate to separate writing an ARG and raising the money (even if raising the money means charge it to Visa) -- you need to do it all, as an indie.

And the buzz from Blair Witch came from the website, which we made, not the distributor, and it pretty much costs whatever the cheapest web hosting solution at the time was -- today would be around $7/month.

You are right -- you can't make a movie for $0, so why should anyone think they can make a game for $0? An artist has to buy canvas and paint. Sculptor buys clay, a writer buys paper and a word processor, etc.

I also don't buy into the "audiences don't want it" argument. Audiences don't know what they want until they see it -- that is a truth -- every year you read the same old stories "Audiences don't want [insert genre] movies anymore because the box office of the last three [insert genre] films was bad." So the studios put those films in turnaround, they tell writers "no one wants those films anymore, write me a comedy" or whatever, then somebody actually makes a good [insert genre] picture, it becomes a hit, and then headlines scream [INSERT GENRE] MOVIES ARE BACK!

I maintain that all audiences want is an entertaining, engaging, and perhaps thought provoking experience, regardless of how it is done -- only that it is done well.

Sure, people may say "I don't want live events" or "I don't want sites on free webs" but if there is an ARG that uses free webs in the right way, and the game is great, they'll love it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:28 am
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Fi
Unfettered


Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 444
Location: London

Well said, Mike.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:40 am
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