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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Last Call Poker » LCP: Meta/Questions, Social Fun, & Poker Help
[META]Forum vs. Chat - a humble plea
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago
Quote:
Maybe this is all because the PMs want to avoid another weephun incident.

I seriously doubt that.

I now expect to see weephun's face appearing on pieces of toast across the U.S. by 2007. You heard it here first.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:06 am
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 		After ILB, I seem to remember some discussion that the puzzles were added in after the ARG got going and the original plan was just the revelation of the story. But the community was expecting puzzles and the story wasn't enough.

I think that still stands. Story isn't enough. The simple revelation of a story by a community isn't enough. Storytelling has some very effective mediums. ARGs have to offer an experience different from those mediums. It is the differences that make ARGs interesting and exciting. If you distill those differences out, then it is just a story posted on a website. Besides, lets be honest, the stories in ARGs don't compare to what you can get from a novel. Razz At the same time, I'm not suggesting the story isn't important.

But, the process of revealing the story is equally important. The process can help involve the community in the story line and help invest the community, individually or as a group, in the story that is being presented.

I don't expect "Finding a card" to change anyone's experience - it is the sense of being completely unable and uninvolved in the search for a card that is interfering with someone's experience. If you are lucky enough to actually find a card, it wasn't the finding of the card that necessarily improved the experience - it is being able to find a card and take part in that search (which you clearly feel by virtue of the fact that you have a card and that Raider seems to not feel) that makes the experience. As I noted, I felt out of the experience until I joined chat despite the fact that I know, having participated, that the chat isn't really important. It is the act of participating that improves the experience.

When we don't post in the forums, when the cards are found in seemingly mysterious ways that are never clearly revealed, when puzzles are solved similarly, when there is no real (not one-way) interaction between us and the characters - we don't feel like we're participating. We feel like we are watching. *

- Speaker (got disconn'd again)

* - We as in the community. Like I said, I've moved from watcher to participator myself. If you've always been a participator, it may be more difficult to empathize with the watchers.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:17 am
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RPGgame
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Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 501

 		im a watcher must be why im having trouble relating to what it taking place
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:57 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

 		Unfortunately, an ARG can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time.

Some like the story, if there are too many puzzles to solve, they get turned off and go elsewhere (because they feel like they cannot participate if they are not attuned enough to solve the puzzles).

Some like the puzzles, if there are not enough puzzles (or too much story), then they get turned off and go elsewhere (because they feel like if there are no puzzles to solve, then why bother with the ARG).

The PM is the boss. It's their game. They get to design it they way they want it. I can see that this company does try to make adjustments. I agree that by telling us the story with characters who are already dead, it helps prevent us from changing their script (and that is good planning). While this does seem to be more story driven, they have thrown us a couple of puzzles (but nothing enough to scare a puzzle-phobe like me).

They have offered projects (small favors) that can be done by almost anyone around the world (to help keep international players involved) but some things are still limited to the country of origin (in this case, the US). But I notice that hasn't stopped many international players from enjoying their experience (Ehsan?).

I think there has been plenty of spec about the story, the timeline, etc. Go back to the begining when we were figuring out the WHY (why does this game exist) of this ARG. Or who was the "Cigarette Man"? Once the connection to the video game was discovered, then new spec comes (who is Colton, is he related to Mary White, etc). And now with the family trees, we can start spec about Lucy and Kerry (are they very very distant cousins?).

Most of the time I cannot be in chat. And I also hang out in the forums waiting for some info. And find the cards on my own (after they have been discovered). And read the story and try to figure out where they may lead. Then, when I get home (if hubby isn't home also), I can jump into chat and someone catches me up - or has posted in the forum. But it seems that most of the card finding has been just following the trail from one card's story to the next.

I am grateful for the wiki and other guides that have been provided to help keep the historical info available for the 2005 characters. At the end, like ILB, there is going to be a great story in this game.

But that is just my opinion. Only worth a couple of cents.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:38 pm
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weephun
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 908
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
krystyn wrote:
Quote:
Maybe this is all because the PMs want to avoid another weephun incident.

I seriously doubt that.

I now expect to see weephun's face appearing on pieces of toast across the U.S. by 2007. You heard it here first.


So how much could I get on ebay for that? Wink Laughing .... *starts cooking toast*

Unfortunately the "weephun incident" will almost definitely have to happen with someone else inciting it this time. Home is crazy with 3 kids and now the LCP site has been officially blocked for me at work (Reason = Gambling). So my participation will be minimum this time around. Still really enjoying the story though (even if I am a week behind).
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- Sean Stewart: "generally people like seeing their names on TV, although probably no one has had a more mixed experience with that then weephun, God bless him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:58 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: [META]Forum vs. Chat - a humble plea
Shad0 wrote:
Speaker pretending to be Anonymous wrote:
Also, there was more of a sense (illusionary or not) of storyline impact by the community in ILB and the forums had discussions of strategy.

We have, at present, no ability to "save" Lucy or William or Johnny Deuces or affect the storyline in any way. We can only observe. We're impotent. Like the dead.

But we can save Matt! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

(PMs, upon reading the previous posts: "Ha! Just wait until Wednesday!" Mr. Green )

That must have been what it was like trying to persuade Mike at the Statue of Liberty to go upstairs and save the Red King, during the Beast. Or trying to complete one of Melissa's phone relays, during ILB. That sense of immediacy, of urgency, of thinking, "If I can just figure out the right thing to say, right now, before it's too late..."

Wow.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Yeah.

Regarding Matt's rescue: I really, really, really wish someone had posted about the 'idea' that had been suggested (the dumbwaiter) to the forums, as I managed to get a very open-ended conversation starter with Roger, but I had nothing else to go on. Finally, frustrated, he told me that there was 'an idea,' and then he got mad at me and hung up.

I suppose it can't be helped, and I am not sure how much more I could've done at that point, since it seemed 'solved,' but he -was- still answering the phone ...

At least I got through this time. I missed being able to speak to Mike Royal by about 10-20 mins. Le sigh.
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xbl gamertag: krystyn

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:10 pm
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aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
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Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		Looked away for 10 minutes in irc and came back and had no idea how they were talking to Roger. Very frustrating. Not sure how everyone was communicating, because not everything that was done made it into irc either.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:42 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: dumbwaiter
krystyn wrote:
Regarding Matt's rescue: I really, really, really wish someone had posted about the 'idea' that had been suggested (the dumbwaiter) to the forums, as I managed to get a very open-ended conversation starter with Roger, but I had nothing else to go on. Finally, frustrated, he told me that there was 'an idea,' and then he got mad at me and hung up.

I got to roughly the same place -- Roger bewailing that he couldn't do anything; me saying something like, "Of course you can do something! You're one of the only people who can!"; Roger saying, "Like what?"; and me saying, "Umm... uhh... err..." and other equally helpful things before he "had to go."

By the time I thought to stop trying to get Roger back on the phone and see what was going on in chat, Matt had already used the dumbwaiter to get down to the basement and into the freezer, and they were working on getting him out of the building from there. Dunno Personally, I'm glad the PMs had Matt move whenever the suggested course of action was correct and not move when it wasn't.

(Too bad the number's disconnected now. I wanted to give Roger a good recommendation for his upcoming performance review...)
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:16 pm
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Phaedra
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 		Re: dumbwaiter
Shad0 wrote:
I got to roughly the same place -- Roger bewailing that he couldn't do anything; me saying something like, "Of course you can do something! You're one of the only people who can!"; Roger saying, "Like what?"; and me saying, "Umm... uhh... err..." and other equally helpful things before he "had to go."


That was actually one of the coolest moments for me -- I was on the phone with Roger when he started to decide/realize that he could make a difference. He said something along the lines of "I may be just here working a desk job, but maybe I can do something." (Sorry, my whole memory of the thing is sort of hazy, kind of like with those Melissa calls. Smile I'm hoping that, as with the Melissa calls, they recorded these.)

Those are the sort of moments that really stick with me, whether I'm experiencing them personally or reading/hearing someone else's account: the first inkling that Melissa was beginning to trust us, Roger realizing he could impact things because of what we said to him...

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:37 pm
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imbri
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Joined: 21 Sep 2002
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 		Re: dumbwaiter
Phaedra wrote:
That was actually one of the coolest moments for me -- I was on the phone with Roger when he started to decide/realize that he could make a difference. He said something along the lines of "I may be just here working a desk job, but maybe I can do something." (Sorry, my whole memory of the thing is sort of hazy, kind of like with those Melissa calls. Smile I'm hoping that, as with the Melissa calls, they recorded these.)

Those are the sort of moments that really stick with me, whether I'm experiencing them personally or reading/hearing someone else's account: the first inkling that Melissa was beginning to trust us, Roger realizing he could impact things because of what we said to him...

Very Happy


I think Phaedra's post highlights the importance of making sure that people in chat are communicating with the forums. As she says, these moments really grab her, whether she's experiencing them or whether she's experiencing them vicariously through others. Without good communication between the IRC channel and the forums, people that don't have the access to chat miss out (to a degree) on the excitement of how things came together. Fortunately for Phaedra, she was in chat today when everything was going down and able to communicate the plan (as it was decided in chat) to/with Roger.

I will agree with Aliendial that chat was frustrating today. There was quite a bit of noise for those of us working and just glancing in on the chat. I only knew enough to know that there was someone on the phone and that we had to get Matt out of a freezer... had no clue how he got into the freezer or who, exactly, people were talking to aside from some Roger person. Though, I'm sure much of that was because I was only glancing in on the channel while trying, desperately, to get some real work done. I only mention it because Aliendial did previously and hope that a couple of you #lc regulars will keep the noise level in mind during the next big exciting event.

All that said, I'm not sure that the frustration that some felt with today's events were solely "our" problem, nor were they solely due to a lack of a communication between chat and the forums. I've been one of the biggest fans of the LCP game design. There's so much that I find just outstanding. Yet, I do question why they gave us such a collaborative problem without preparing us for it in advance. So much of this game has been competitive (leader boards, first to find something gets credit, etc) and, while there have been some collaborative bits, they've been relatively minor or on a much more meta level. It's great that we're challenged in a new way and the interaction was fantastic (so very Mike Royal, for those familiar with "the Beast"). Yet it seemed out of place that we were suddenly forced to pull together to form a plan to save a character. In previous games, most notably ILB, we had been given time to develop a strong network designed to not only communicate across a number of channels, but to do so efficiently. Because of their increasing nature, we were able to grow the network to a point where plans could be hatched and set into motion and the majority of participants knew the process and where their roles were in that process.

With Krystyn and others not able to access the chat feeling left out or as if they weren't completely part of the community (at least for this event) makes me think of the others that are new to UF/LCP or, more so, not actually a part of the UF community. I've no solid evidence of communities outside of UF working together on LCP in real time as we are so it's a bit of a theoretical debate, but what if they'd come up with another plan? Would they have felt as though their efforts were futile or pointless?

While I appreciate the shakeup today and, overall, we rolled with it well, it just felt as if it wasn't as carefully developed as the other aspects of LCP have been. Though, as is true with most ARGs, we should expect surprises such as this and, because of that, we need to make a better effort to keep the excitement of updates moving between both chat & the forums. We've done a better job on the spec, now let's try to do the same with the updates.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:14 am
Last edited by imbri on Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Arana
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
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ariock wrote:
I have a question. I just saw the deleted post by Raider on another thread, and saw that you had voiced your support Arana, but I am not sure I understand what the solution is. It seemed to me that your concern was that too little information was being posted on the forum, and I thought that for the most part this had been addressed.


You are correct, it has been mostly addressed. I was inarticulate in my earlier post. I am mostly referring to the update days. TODAY was great, I thought that there was excellent use of the Chat, and those of us unable to be in on it still felt like we were playing the game. I was feeling when I originally posted that EVERYTHING was going on on the chat and was thus invisible to those who primarily use the forum.

ariock wrote:
Raider's concern appears to be that the information is posted too slowly on the forums, making it impossible (though this has been proven not to be the case for other players) to get a card. On that page, you appeared to be agreeing with this different point.


I don't agree with the different point, I was just too brief becuase I was pressed for time. I should not have been so reactionary!

ariock wrote:
I am just trying to get a handle on what is actually being requested here.

Are you requesting (for example in your sig) that chat not be used?

While I agree that information on solves should be put on the boards ASAP, I think to a large extent this isn't going to happen any more quickly than it did during ILB.


NO! CHAT is essential. Matt would be dead without it I t hink. I just saw things moving too far in the direction of not being on the forums that one day and was pushing back toward the other.

ariock wrote:
...I posted ALL of the dates on the forum as soon as I had them collected. They were wrong, but as wrong as the original information from DC.

Honestly, have you read the logs of that chat? There was nothing in there that helped ME get a card.


seen and appreciated, and I have seen so many cards gotten without use of the chat that I knew that point was mistaken from the get go.

ariock wrote:
And even if I HAD figured out a card, I wouldn't have taken it anyway. I would have tried to give it to pita since she is the reason I have a card now anyway. It would be nice if people who have cards would help out people without them. And not just because, seriously, how many cards do you need? Also because getting one Spade is worth 6,000 chips; a second spade is only 1,000 more. By NOT taking a second/third/fourth, but giving it to someone without one, you actually increase the total number of chips in play more quickly.


This is an amazing spirit of community that makes me proud to be part of this!

ariock wrote:
... someone I respect (you)


Embarassed (blush! thnx!)

ariock wrote:
why I busted my ass last week to try to get info from chat onto the forums as quickly as possible when it appears the people I was trying to help don't appreciate it anyway.

EDIT: And as I think about it, I don't think there is any better way of getting the information TO the players at the live events than in chat and out through the phones of the Legion of Spectres.


I appreciate it! And I think of myself as one of the people you were trying to help. Please, keep up the good work!

I will remodel my signature as I think that my original concern has been completely addressed.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, and I am sorry that my quick post led to concern.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:17 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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Location: My own alternate reality

 		I was at work today. When I got the phone call (Matt talking to Ben) I got over to my office as soon as I could even though I knew I wouldn't be able to access chat.

I found that the update thread had already started (this was about 12:30p) and I started reading pages on LCP - finding updates all over the place and starting to piece together the new story.

I placed my phone call to FBI (not knowing what to expect) and fortunately I just got voice mail (I tried punching in a few password or mailbox codes but had no guidance so I figured I would just wait for the forum update).

I think that I was still participating without the chat today - I kept reading and probably had just as much chance to find Poquito as anyone else (but I don't need to find another card).

So, much thanks to all who posted in the forum and kept us 'chatless' folks updated.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:30 am
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ariock
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Arana wrote:
Lots of good stuff

Thank you. It looks like a little more would help, considering the live phone calls today. It was pretty crazy though...even in chat.

Perhaps some kind of IM ring would help those who can't get access to IRC, for quick updates?

MSN/Yahoo/AIM/GoogleIM?

Any ideas or thoughts?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:20 am
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Phaedra
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 		Re: dumbwaiter
imbri wrote:
I will agree with Aliendial that chat was frustrating today. There was quite a bit of noise for those of us working and just glancing in on the chat.


Yes. There was.

Which brings me to something that I'm not sure how to address without sounding, um, mean, but..

There were a lot of people popping into chat in the middle of a fairly tense/fast-paced interaction and asking what was going on. I don't entirely blame them.

But there were also people who had been sitting in chat the entire time, had no excuse for not being able to tell that we needed to lower the noise-to-signal ratio to get something done, and still kept asking "what's going on?" when scrolling up half a mouse-wheel's worth would have told them, without making it more difficult for people to communicate.

Please, people, please, please, please, when we're in the middle of Update Intensity, and you've had your chat program open so, presumably, things are logged for you, please scroll up and read before going "What's happening?"

In one case, I had Roger on the phone, and he was waiting pretty patiently while I tried to get answers from people in IRC, and meanwhile people who had been in there the whole time, but, presumably, had stepped away from their computer or something, were asking what was happening.

Also, should something like this happen again, can we please have the good sense to stay on topic and not throw 30,000 extraneous lols and other exclamations in there?

It's already scrolling fast enough. I'm not begrudging people the chance to be expressive (I certainly lol enough myself) but when we're in the middle of something fast-moving and intense, it really serves no purpose and just makes the conversation more difficult to follow. If chat is scrolling quickly and we're doing something highly time-constrained like trying to save a character from dying in a fire, please don't type unless you have something substantive to say. We have all the rest of the week to be social.

[/rant]

imbri wrote:
I've been one of the biggest fans of the LCP game design. There's so much that I find just outstanding. Yet, I do question why they gave us such a collaborative problem without preparing us for it in advance. So much of this game has been competitive (leader boards, first to find something gets credit, etc) and, while there have been some collaborative bits, they've been relatively minor or on a much more meta level. It's great that we're challenged in a new way and the interaction was fantastic (so very Mike Royal, for those familiar with "the Beast"). Yet it seemed out of place that we were suddenly forced to pull together to form a plan to save a character.


I think you're actually addressing several separate but related issues here.

First, this:

imbri wrote:
In previous games, most notably ILB, we had been given time to develop a strong network designed to not only communicate across a number of channels, but to do so efficiently.


Ah, but in ILB, the majority of the players participating in that were new to both ARGs and UF (at least as far as I could tell, being new myself at the time).

We needed the time, and the guidance. We weren't used to working together.

In LCP, the majority of the active and visible players seem to be people who've played ARGs before. There are a lot of ILB players. Giving us the same amount of prep time would be somewhat akin to letting someone in school take the exact same test twice.

I got the impression from the post-ILB chat that one of the things the PMs enjoyed, a lot, was throwing something very challenging at us, watching us get thrown for a loop and then regroup.

We weren't always ready for what happened in ILB. And a lot of times, when we thought we were ready -- as in one update Tuesday when I was staying home from work, and we organized an elaborate system to handle the sort of phone-relay game we'd had to deal with the week before -- most of our preparation turned out to be largely irrelevant.

I don't really think hitting us with something that had to be coordinated in chat and that we weren't entirely prepared for was particularly out of character. I don't know that they were expecting preparation, or even a great deal of competence at handling the situation. I rather suspect it may have been something of a heads-up: get your network in place, people, because we're about to start lobbing fastballs!

That said, better preparation and better integration between chat and non-chat people is clearly needed. However, I'm not really sure what's specifically needed without better clues as to what to expect next week. Any ideas?

imbri wrote:
Yet it seemed out of place that we were suddenly forced to pull together to form a plan to save a character.


I guess I don't see it as quite as jarring a change of direction as you seem to. Smile

This is a lot more competitive than ILB.

But, to make the metaphors/themes literal for a moment:

ILB was about bees -- social animals that work together, at the expense of their own individuality, for a collective goal (generally, survival and reproduction, but that's probably taking the metaphor a bit too far).

LCP is about poker -- poker is competitive. Only one person wins in a game of poker. Poker is about bluffing and lying and beating the other players.

That said, ILB certainly had elements that went against the overall grain/theme of cooperation and community. For example:

--The Sleeping Princess induced people to compete regarding which was the "best" question each week.

--The open crew positions for Nav & Command, Science & Engineering and so on required us to race to send in pictures to get them.

--While I wouldn't say the PMs exactly encouraged an antagonistic mentality between partisans of the Sleeping Princess and Melissa's crew, they didn't exactly discourage it, either.

Conversely, LCP emphasizes much more individual initiative, but that doesn't mean that there won't be elements requiring us to act as a unified, single-minded whole. Especially since, as ARGers, that's sort of our forte. Smile

I think what happened today may have been a transition -- it seemed sort of like a bridge from the sort of individualistic emphasis and types of interaction (competitive tournaments, etc.) we've been experiencing to something more ILB-like, with a few people interacting live with the community directing them (something the PMs have already incorporated with, for example, the live event in San Francisco, which required both people "in the field," and people online, to coordinate).

This required individual initiative (it wasn't randomly placed live calls to us; rather, we had to take the initiative and call Roger) but it also required people to be checking the updates, something that was hard to do when you were on the phone. So, it was still a bit more individualistic than what happened during ILB, but I suspect that next week it may not be. We did give them permission to call us when we gave them our phone numbers. And -- I may be wrong here, haven't checked -- but I don't recall it saying anywhere that those calls would necessarily all be pre-recorded.

Again, I think this may have been something of a heads-up.

In terms of not being prepared information-wise -- I'm not sure if you meant that, but just in case you did -- we actually had all the info in advance. We didn't know how to use it, but it was sitting there in front of us the whole time.

Kinda like Father Mueller....

imbri wrote:
With Krystyn and others not able to access the chat feeling left out or as if they weren't completely part of the community (at least for this event) makes me think of the others that are new to UF/LCP or, more so, not actually a part of the UF community. I've no solid evidence of communities outside of UF working together on LCP in real time as we are so it's a bit of a theoretical debate, but what if they'd come up with another plan? Would they have felt as though their efforts were futile or pointless?


Hmm.

I don't know: were they any more excluded than people who couldn't get to payphones?

Were they any more excluded than people who can't check the forums at work because their internet access is monitored, and so have to wait until they get home at night?

Were they any more excluded than people who never got a live call during ILB?

The most affecting, memorable moments, unfortunately, are often the most exclusive ones as well. A poker game with Lucky that anyone who can get online can watch is very nice and inclusive.

But it also doesn't have the same sort of visceral emotional impact that a private phone conversation with a live voice actor has.

A Morse-code puzzle that can be solved over a day or so is also nice and inclusive.

But it also doesn't have the same sort of visceral emotional impact that trying to save someone from a burning building has.

It's a dilemma. The more I consider it, the more it seems that there's usually a trade-off, in designing interactions, between emotional impact and inclusiveness.

Similarly, I think there may be a trade-off between the desirability of an interaction and its availability.

Most people in ILB wanted live phone interaction with Melissa or the Sleeping Princess, regardless of -- or because of? -- the fact that it was random and rare in comparison to the prerecorded calls.

I think the PMs are actually doing a better job in providing all sorts of types of interaction for all sorts of players this time around:

--You have chat interactions with characters in various non-exclusive poker rooms, meaning that theoretically anyone can participate, and everyone knows when and where they will be.

--You have what I'll call "merit" interactions -- interactions that are earned by winning chips or by being on the Social board.

--You have prerecorded phone calls that will go to voice mail, meaning that regardless of whether one is available at the time of the call, one can participate.

--You have large-scale live events, requiring people to work together in groups.

--You have online coordination requirements for at least some of those large-scale events, allowing a different sort of real-time participation for those located elsewhere.

--You have small events that can be done individually, regardless of where one is located, and done on one's own time.

--You have, for those small events, PM feedback in the form of short personalized responses.

--You have things like the Hat Tour for people outside the U.S. (granted, that was sort of our idea, but the PMs still ran with it).

--And now, you have something akin to the ILB phone relays; a hybrid of sorts, requiring individual, on-the-fly, real-time interaction backed up by community coordination.

I'd say they're trying -- and by and large managing -- to be all things to all people.

Anyway, in summary and conclusion (yes, I know, finally Smile ), I think exclusivity in certain types of interactions is a necessary evil, and in some instances may be an intentional means of increasing the desirability of certain types of interactions.

I don't think either we or the PMs fell down on the job today. I think the community was surprised, but came through, and I think that the PMs didn't necessarily intend for us to handle this with flying colors. I think they may have been trying to startle us, and to get us to prepare for new twists in the game structure.
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World Champion: Cruel 2B Kind

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:36 am
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