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[LOCKED] Jane & Kiyash's Latchkey Project
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GuyP
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

 		Jane & Kiyash's Latchkey Project
Kind of surprised this hasn't been posted already - it's been around for a little while now, but I was reminded of it when I came across a link to it elsewhere. Anyway, for $28, you get a key and an envelope of secrets and handwritten clues. Your mission: to find the lock your key opens.

In the priceless words of the FAQ, "you'd better start talking to a lot of new and interesting people, and start sticking your key in some interesting places." So if that tickles your proverbial fancy:

http://avantgame.com/key.htm
http://avantgame.com/keyfaq.htm

Enjoy!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:18 am
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Reason
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Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 408
Location: West London

 		Seems like a really nice idea... I may have to make a purchase. Anyone on Unfiction play this?
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All of my PerplexCity swag is up for grabs in an attempt to fund a trip around Asia:

http://reasonisperplexed.blogspot.com/

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:03 am
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Glecius
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Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Location: The corner of HUH? and WTF?

 		This definitely sounds intruiging. Think I might have to make a purchase myself. Once I get everything I'll be sure to post anything vital.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:04 pm
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KradDrol
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Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 16

 		Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I smell a scam.

You don't know where the lock is.

THEY don't know where the lock is.

NOBODY knows where their lock is, and nobody's ever found their lock.

It sounds like a great idea to me. Go to some antiques store and buy a stash of keys for about a buck each. Make a website saying that if you buy this key, you can go on an adventure to find your lock. Sell said key for 28 dollars. That's a nice little margin they got there.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:58 pm
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Glecius
Decorated

Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 193
Location: The corner of HUH? and WTF?
KradDrol wrote:
Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I smell a scam.


The only recommendation I could give would be to research Jane McGonigal, as a real person, within this genre and see the things her name is attached to. Her reputation well precedes her IMO and as what I consider to be a pioneer in the genre is enough for me, however I would never suggest others simply take my word to spend their own money.
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There are 10 types of people, those that understand binary and those that dont.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:15 pm
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aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		I sincerely doubt scam. I do expect an interactive experience where the journey is as important as the destination.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:16 pm
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Reason
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Location: West London
aliendial wrote:
I do expect an interactive experience where the journey is as important as the destination.


Well said Very Happy
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Reason³³³

All of my PerplexCity swag is up for grabs in an attempt to fund a trip around Asia:

http://reasonisperplexed.blogspot.com/

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:35 pm
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Yembles
Boot


Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 49
Location: UK

 		Shiny!

I'm certainly intrigued. Perhaps moreso than I would like.

I shall definitely consider buying a key. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:44 pm
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binny
Guest


 		What if you get a skeleton key? Laughing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:02 pm
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binny
Guest


 		Seriously, though...

If they don't know where the lock is and they have no way to verify that it still exists, how can they give a 'Clue Kit'?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:15 pm
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

 		I.. umm.. fail to see the point in this...

Looks like a scam...

But it's Jane so I dunno...

And I want one...

But there's no point really..

/me runs off confused...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:32 pm
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		From someone who had not one, but two of these, I can guarantee that people will buy just about anything. What you do with it after is up to you:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:35 pm
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janemcg
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 63
Location: Berkeley, CA

 		Hey guys,

Did two people really use the word scam? About something that Kiyash and I created? Seriously? Yeow.

It's, uh, really simple. It's adventure jewelry. It's style. It's about how much fun it is to wear a crazy key around your neck that everyone will ask you about, and you'll have to explain to them why you have no idea what it actually opens. And then you get to ask them if they have or know of any old locks that it might open, and sometimes they show you the locks or give you ideas of where to look.

If you want more than something really styling to wear around your neck, and a real-life mystery that has an ACTUAL solution, then by all means ignore ignore ignore this project. I mean, really. PLEASE. It takes us 5 hours to craft the keys and search kit, and it's really an act of devotion and art, creating something special for someone else who gets our worldview.

Because, you know, old keys really do open stuff. Here's a mystery you could really solve. Just because the PMs don't know the solution doesn't make it less of an adventure puzzle. Frankly, sounds more like and adventure that way to me. And all of us with our latchkeys, we're in the project together, all searching for our locks. It's already a lovely little community.

Cheers, and thanks to all of the folks who are blogging their adventures so far. We love it!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:59 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Too bad I didn't know about this before Christmas. What a perfect gift for all those people who have everything but seriously lack adventure in their life.

But I can't wait to get a kit... sounds like fun.

Thanks for the link GuyP.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:56 am
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

 		Hi Jane,

janemcg wrote:
Did two people really use the word scam? About something that Kiyash and I created? Seriously? Yeow.


I unfortunately did say that... although it is a bit harsh because the implications of the word are far greater than what we meant, it is only a snippet of the discussion sparked by this in IRC.

There were mixed opinions indeed, but the conclusion seemed to be that this only works because it has your name on it. (I'll explain about "this" later). The fact is, your name alone is a strong brand.. this works because you are behind it and people have faith in you because of past experience. That is not to say that someone who doesn't know you won't enjoy this as well, but that was the more specific reason you didn't have 100 people shouting "scam" in that thread".

Now a little more about my personal thoughts...

Scam implies promising something and not delivering. That is obviously a wrong word to use because you deliver exactly what you promise: A key. The points that sparked a debate in chat are the descriptions that go around that:

janemcg wrote:
It's, uh, really simple. It's adventure jewelry. It's style. It's about how much fun it is to wear a crazy key around your neck that everyone will ask you about, and you'll have to explain to them why you have no idea what it actually opens. And then you get to ask them if they have or know of any old locks that it might open, and sometimes they show you the locks or give you ideas of where to look.


Now the first argument I would make is with the word "adventure". There is no clear definition of what you mean by that here. I will use Fake Person as an example here. Fake Person lives all alone on an Island. He has nobody to talk to, but he does have means of obtaining one of the keys with the clue sets. Fake Person is not amused by anything, he doesn't care about anything, and he has no feelings. When Mr. Fake Person obtains the key and wears it around his neck, he will not receive an adventure simply because he does not beleieve in adventures.

What I mean by this implausible tale is that you cannot guarantee the adventure of looking for the right lock because a person might not consider that an adventure, but perhaps a chore. Yes, they could simply not buy the key then, but the Latchkey Guarantee promises an adventure for everyone.

The second issue I'd like to raise is the fact that you do not know what the key unlocks. That immediately triggers alarms because it means you are working with an infinitely small probability: 1 divided by Number of Locks in the World (NLW). We obviously know that NLW is a very, very large number.. it's all the locks in the world.. ever. On doors, chests, and individual locks.. could be trillions. It's simply not realistic to assume anyone would find the lock, unless there are factors we don't know about (more on that later).

BUT, the prize in the Latchkey is not to find the lock.. it is the adventure. Correct, but if you are 99.999999999999999999999% sure that you will never find the lock, will you embark on that adventure? Maybe.. every person is free to do what they want, but I wouldn't. There reason the adventure exists is that you are on a journey to find the lock, asking people about the key, and trying to solve it. Why go proceed with that adventure if you know the result is impossible.


janemcg wrote:
If you want more than something really styling to wear around your neck, and a real-life mystery that has an ACTUAL solution, then by all means ignore ignore ignore this project. I mean, really. PLEASE. It takes us 5 hours to craft the keys and search kit, and it's really an act of devotion and art, creating something special for someone else who gets our worldview.


If by ignoring you mean not buying a key then I may or may not do that, but people will still discuss this regardless of whether they agree with it or not. I mean the world doesn't work around the premise that if you don't like something then ignore it. People argue, countries go to war, and PMs get dissed--happens everyday simply because people don't share the same worldview. Doesn't essentially make anyone more right or wrong.

I don't argue that you spend a lot of time with this. And I honestly don't doubt your devotion at all. I simply want to point out the obvious different view that exists.


janemcg wrote:
Because, you know, old keys really do open stuff. Here's a mystery you could really solve. Just because the PMs don't know the solution doesn't make it less of an adventure puzzle. Frankly, sounds more like and adventure that way to me. And all of us with our latchkeys, we're in the project together, all searching for our locks. It's already a lovely little community.


I'd just like to take a side-step here and argue about an unrelated issue: If a PM in a typical ARG creates a puzzle to which they do not know the solution, I am personally going to kill them (well.. at least I'll be very very disappointed). I take my puzzles very seriously, to me they are the most important element of bridging the gap between story and game in an online universe. I expect PMs to spend more time on creating puzzles than story and interaction combined. Puzzles must be well researched, well implemented, well designed, thoroughly tested, and on top of all that provide a completely satisfying resolution which is proportional to the amount of effort the players are going to put in. That is my personal view, but I jealously guard the art of puzzle creation and strongly oppose those who create flawed puzzles. This is not related to this project, but I wanted to bring it up because you mentioned PMs.


Now back to the Latchkeys. I think the most important issue I want to bring up is what really happens behind the scenes. I don't know. And for that reason I cannot base an informed opinion. Whatever I said here is just personal ranting, which many would argue with.

For example, you might have specifically chosen a key for each person in the world. When someone orders a key, you make sure that you analyze their entire life patterns and dispatch a lock in a location which would ultimately satisfy them. You research the history of every single key, creating extensive clues to the location of the lock based on a historical drama. You assign 100 actors to follow them around everyday, and write interesting stories and interaction scenarios which would make their life filled with adventure. (I exaggerate to show a point, but bear with me). If that is the case, then this is a well though project that does indeed create an adventure for any person, and to me is worth it completely.

Now on the other hand, you might get 100 old keys and locks off of ebay, scatter the locks in a park somewhere, and make up stories about the keys. You send the keys to people and see what they do.

I don't know what happens behind the scenes, I know what the end result is. To me, it is not worth the money asked. To many other people, it is. That's just a personal opinion and you get many of those around here and in life. It doesn't make what you are doing any less interesting or less important.

janemcg wrote:
Cheers, and thanks to all of the folks who are blogging their adventures so far. We love it!


And they are lovely adventures indeed. I can see that people are having fun, and that they got what you promised them. But I hope you understand why I stick to my opinions above in that I consider this not to be worth the price paid. Was it right of me to use the word scam? Probably not.. and I felt that it bothered you enough to post here which is something you don't do very often, so I figured you deserve an explanation to what is at the very least my personal opinion. I apologize for using the word scam, and I know that you weren't the one to post this here for ARGers, so I hope the above explanation shows at least what was going through my mind when I used an unbefitting word.

At the end of the day I know you can use feedback in many different ways, so I hope you find some constructive criticism in this rant. If not than you can just ignore ignore ignore me, as many people do. Smile

All the best to you in all your adventures.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 pm
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