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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Last Call Poker » LCP: General/Updates
[UPDATE] November 9
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

Yay Shad0!
At the LA cemetery event we'll put a little shrine with Victor's hat and Corazon's box and make appropriate offerings. And if Kerry is still alive (and at our event), we'll ask him to also make appropriate amends (although I think he is trying).

Actually, this is all Don's fault - so I hope the bad guy gets it in the end.

I'm so glad you didn't lose your job. I almost lost my marriage after going for Vic's hat last month instead of hubby's planned date night.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:55 pm
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Astald
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
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Location: Just outside of Pittsburgh (Go Steelers!)

Well, we know he was at least shot a couple times but is still alive enough to be walking, from Lionel's text:
Lucky wrote:
We are nearly back to Genesis, to the very Cain and Abel of the story of the Gun, while all the time, today, Sullivan's curse and Sullivan's stolen gun now lie at last in the hand of his descendent, Kerry Tucker, as he walks, bleeding from many wounds, through the bodies of scattered Mi Casa henchman.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:56 pm
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skywisej
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Green and rainy Oregon (Go Ducks!)

I really believe that if Kerry was dead we would know about it. He is such a major character to the story, there is no way he would die "off-screen".
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:01 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: Shado and rose the two most cold hearted ARG players eve

Arana wrote:
<nice stuff>

ariock wrote:
<more nice stuff>

Astald wrote:
<some more nice stuff>

krystyn wrote:
<still more nice stuff>

rose wrote:
<really nice stuff>

Phaedra wrote:
<more awfully nice stuff>

HitsHerMark wrote:
<even more nice stuff>

konamouse wrote:
<yet more nice stuff>

There is no truth at all to the rumor that I was sniffling while I read these.



And if anyone still doesn't know why I slogged around in the mud for a couple of hours for a Censored game...



I you guys.



[/threadjack]

Yeah, Kerry got through it. In addition to the entry on Lucky's profile, we have Preacher: Offline; Spider: Offline; Poquito: Offline; Delaje: Offline; Kerry: Alive.
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:10 pm
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Bethling
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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Location: Seattle Area

Re: Shado and rose the two most cold hearted ARG players eve

Shad0 wrote:

Yeah, Kerry got through it. In addition to the entry on Lucky's profile, we have Preacher: Offline; Spider: Offline; Poquito: Offline; Delaje: Offline; Kerry: Alive.


You know, when this game started, there's no way that I could have imagined that seeing "Yeah,Kerry got through it" would make me smile. I spent more than a few updates hoping he'd be killed.

Amazing how your perspective can change.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:34 pm
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Astald
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
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Location: Just outside of Pittsburgh (Go Steelers!)

Re: Shado and rose the two most cold hearted ARG players eve

Shad0 wrote:

Yeah, Kerry got through it. In addition to the entry on Lucky's profile, we have Preacher: Offline; Spider: Offline; Poquito: Offline; Delaje: Offline; Kerry: Alive.

Yeah but as of right now, jamesbutlerhickok: Alive. I know Kerry still has to be alive, but I am also wondering about the architect, Shawn Clevarias, would have thought he would have been in on the shootout as well.
Bethling wrote:

You know, when this game started, there's no way that I could have imagined that seeing "Yeah,Kerry got through it" would make me smile. I spent more than a few updates hoping he'd be killed.

Amazing how your perspective can change.

I remember some big perspective changes I had with a character from a similar game. We called him the flea...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:55 pm
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Arana
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: shallow grave

If you look closely at "Butch and Sundance" you can see that while Clay took out his gun, he never planned on firing it. He has his hand around the handle and all of his fingers are outside of the triggerguard. We know that Clay does know how to shoot because he fired at Kink in the cemetery.

Kerry is not that great a shot either. For eight shots fired by his gun at Spider he only gets three, or possibly four impacts, even though at close range. For Poquito, ten shots produce three impacts (but he is a lot furtehr away, so that's actually pretty good).

From my examination it seems thay by the end of the clip, Kerry has taken out everyone we see surrounding him in the earlier views. Who is he shooting at at the end when he dives across the screen? Also he does not appear to have been hit up to that point, but Lucky says "as he walks, bleeding from many wounds, through the bodies of scattered Mi Casa henchman". There must have been a few more left and he must have been hit (or maybe he's bleeding from his sideways dive onto the pavement with both hands on his gun).

Why did Spider shoot Clay? Don wants the gun and they believe that Clay knows where it is. If he had the gun well-hidden then for Spider to kill him would be a big mistake. Kerry has now ensured that she won't be punished by Don for it though.

Simon is the "ace" for our side in that I have seen no evidence that Don knows about him. Simon is likely as tough as Kerry, and is certainly a more careful planner.

[edit] We're also running low on honest cops. Could Philip Kim make a reappearance?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:07 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

Arana wrote:

We're also running low on honest cops. Could Philip Kim make a reappearance?


For that reason I have kept his card in my QL file - he's gotta be part of the Don take-down.
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r u a Sammeeeee? I am Forever!


PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:35 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

musings

I know some people have claimed there isn't much to spec about in this game. I respectfully disagree and the following has the meanderings of my thoughts on various issues. I could have some facts wrong. Feel free to agree, disagree and spec away. We only have two weeks left.
----

Quote:
You know, when this game started, there's no way that I could have imagined that seeing "Yeah,Kerry got through it" would make me smile. I spent more than a few updates hoping he'd be killed.

Amazing how your perspective can change.


Wow. This really interests me because I still see Kerry as a stone-cold killer - murderer. The only difference is that he is deciding who to kill on his own rather than following Don's orders.

I see him doing nothing to save or protect, or even acknowledge, Clay in
the video. And any sympathy I would have felt for Kerry, which was unlikely given the ruthless way he killed so many people, ends when I think of him shooting Victor even though he knew he shouldn't and killing Maurice (did we ever find out the reason that Don gave Kerry for killing Maurice?)

I would have much preferred that Kerry die and Clay, who has not killed anyone and was hopelessly out of his league, survive that ambush. (by the way I know that Clay was shooting at Kink in the cemetery, but a message to Clay from Lucy says - remind me to teach you how to shoot, or something to that effect.)

The only justification I can see for Clay dying, narrative-wise, is that Corazon's life was in danger and way back in the beginning, even before the meeting in the cemetery when Robert was killed, Corazon saved Clay's life.

(Paco, who is later murdered by Kerry, robbed Clay's quickimart at gun point. Corazon, who was shopping at the time, scared Paco away with the Glock that her brother -Johnny Deuces?- gave her. Where oh where was the Glock when the big bad man came with her sister? Didn't Kerry take it from her earlier, when she was going to try to kill him? He probably felt it prudent to keep it just in case she changed her mind.)

The justification plot-wise for Don to have Clay killed is pretty thin. Ddn't Kerry have the Colt at Corazon's house? Or maybe I misread that. So what would be the point of asking Clay about it? And doesn't Kerry know that Don has nothing to talk to Clay about when he goes to Clay's apartment to tell Clay to leave town. And instead takes Clay with him to the shootout he was obviously expecting?

Maybe Don knew that Clay was extraneous in terms of getting the gun. Hmmm - Clay was obviously the second shooter at the cemetery (as much as I hate Don, I give him credit for being "good at his job", good enough to figure that out -and yes I know that Don got the lead on Clay from the idea that Matt told him about the gun) so maybe Don had to get rid of him because of that. Don had to see the pictures that Victor took at the cemetery of the shooting. Could he have missed getting a shot of Clay? (Um, did we decide that those pictures which led Lucy to Corazon were sent by Philip Kim to Simon as part of their arrangement?)

----
Question: was the machine-gun that Kerry used the one like Maurice gave to Phil Kim? If so, did he get it from Simon? I think that the gun Maurice gave Phil Kim will turn out to be important.

----
Predictions:
Could Kerry really live out this story? Maurice was the killer in 1914 and he did. I have a hard time with this one. I thought that either Simon or Maurice would kill Kerry. I just can't see Kerry getting away with all those murders he committed. So I always come back to Kerry dying.

In the movie the Crying Game, certain aspects of which are repeated here, the character that Kerry represents a bit, ends up going to jail for the murders committed by the girlfriend of a soldier he was forced to kill. So maybe Corazon takes out Don and Kerry takes the blame.

Simon and Matt still have a role to play here. Don is after Matt and Lucy. I think Simon may end up being the real killer in this story. The fact he hasn't left yet and is willing to take Matt in, shows he has some strong interest in avenging Maurice's death.

And then there is Lothor -- did we agree he was being used by Don as a front to get Robert to sell the Gun. Or maybe just to flush the Gun out into the open.

The crazy thing is that I can see this happening so many different ways.

My favorite prediction is that whatever treasure Don thinks is in the Gun doesn't exist - the Maltese Falcon ending that it was all a waste. (Perhaps Lucky figured out whatever modifications were made to the Gun and took the treasure - and that is the basis of his fortune?)

Also - do we think both Matt and Lucy will survive? Can Matt really get clear of the crimes he comitted? Now that Ben Rojas, the man we had so much hope for in solving this, is dead - will there be a case against him? Can Phil Kim fix it? Will Kerry get off for being the vigilante killer of gang members from both gangs?

-----
Another question I have about this story is that Don is just not a credible character. Certainly the cops should be aware enough that something is going on with him. Other people have suggested that the Gun itself is evil in some way so that if you crave it or seek it, it makes you more and more of a monster. ( yes, like the One Ring and the Sullivans are the hobbits who can use it without being ensnared by its evil powers. Don't know where that leaves Lucky though. )

---
About the Butch and Sundance reference in the video, I seem to remember a scene earlier in the film where one of them confesses to the other that they have never killed a man. So maybe that is where that came from. Or maybe just trying to tie in a Western theme.

Speaking of Western movie themes - did we find the spot that Shado found the offering in any old Western. I think the clue was that it was the place that Hart camped? I will keep looking.

And I don't know how we missed finding that clue on Saturday! We have missed crucial bits in almost every update! I think that the story is so dense with information that we assume we have everything. And then the next update is even more complex because we have to catch up from what we should have gotten earlier plus all the new stuff.
---
Please add thoughts and comments here. We do have a lot to speculate about and discuss. And actually less than two weeks, three more updates, to do it!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:14 am
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Astald
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 747
Location: Just outside of Pittsburgh (Go Steelers!)

First, I think the gun that Maurice gave to Phil Kim was a Desert Eagle, which would be a handgun not a machinegun.
Now I am equally as puzzled at Clay's death as you are. The only thing I can think of is that they want to give us a chance to talk to the Preacher at a poker table.
So about Kerry. Lucky said it himself, this story is a Western. Kerry is our modern day Colton White. He might have done some questionable things in the past, but he just put his life on the line to help someone he barely knew. That lead up to a shootout with the bad guys. Now it seems Kerry is going to have a confrontation with the villain of the story, the one who has been using him all along, Don McPherson. I can't tell you if he will survive or not, but it seems like he is this story's (not so) White Knight. His sword is The Gun. Although that is just my spec, and I don't mean it to take away from your lovely spec in any way rose.
Let me just finish up by mentioning this. This story has just started to remind me of the movie Crash. All the characters you thought were good at first become evil, and all the evil characters are starting to become good. Well, maybe not all, but you get my point.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:34 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

more ideas

1. Do you think Matt will be able to break-in to the "FBI crime computer" and doctor things to either a) incriminate Don McPherson or b) get himself off the hook - Kerry may be covered by McPherson hiding evidence already or c) both?

2. To me Kerry is still teh evil man -even thought I recognize that is a truly simplistic way of describing him. I don't see a redemption for him. But I love the way Clay describes him -
Quote:

"Yes," Clay said. "I can't disagree with you at all. And there is no earthly reason I should give you, of all people, a gun. You're a fanatic. You do things because you think it's the moral thing to do. Maybe that makes you a terrorist. Maybe it makes you a saint. Hell, it might make you both, I don't know."

"You think I'm a terrorist?" Kerry asked. He had never thought of himself as a terrorist. He was the opposite of that.

"I think you will do what you see as the right thing." Clay said. And then added as an afterthought, "If you're leaving town and you take the gun with you, at least it won't come back to me."


(from Kerry Tucker ~ Makes you a terrorist.)

He was a direct factor in the death of the most innocent character we have - Clay. He is only helping Corazon because of his tremendous guilt from being so easily manipulated into killing an innocent man. I guess I always go back to that moment of choice when he could have spared Victor or Maurice and he didn't hesitate.

Perhaps it is my strong aversion to the vigilante archetype.

3. I know people think the Gun is evil and the Gun was somehow responsible for Clay's death. Still not sure how that works but people, who have the Gun and are not supposed to, die. It was with Lucky for a long time and with the pawn shop in Juarez and those people didn't die. So far Matt hasn't died - maybe you need to use the Gun to kill someone? But how would that work with Maurice? Eventually, the Gun did lead directly to his death so I suppose that curse still holds.

Like I said, some people feel the Gun has its own mystic powers.


4. I still see so many possibilities of how this story could end - who will survive, who will ultimately kill Don, will Simon still forgive Kerry after he know longer needs him, is Don the top person here or is there still someone else? And are there any honest cops in LA? Who ends up with the Gun?

5. A question: at the LA memorial, could we make a list of all the people that have died in this game - the good and the bad - and maybe read those names outloud?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:18 pm
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Bethling
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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Location: Seattle Area

Re: musings

rose wrote:

Quote:
You know, when this game started, there's no way that I could have imagined that seeing "Yeah,Kerry got through it" would make me smile. I spent more than a few updates hoping he'd be killed.

Amazing how your perspective can change.


Wow. This really interests me because I still see Kerry as a stone-cold killer - murderer. The only difference is that he is deciding who to kill on his own rather than following Don's orders.


The way I now see Kerry is as someone who has experienced how lousy the world can be, and that he believes that some people have to do evil things so that the rest don't have to experience that evil. Because there's a lot of evil that "falls through the cracks." He wasn't killing because Don was ordering him too. He was killing because a federal Marshall asked him to do something that the police can't.

That's not a 'good' guy, but I don't see him as one of the bad guys.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:11 pm
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Abraxas
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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konamouse wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Snowfalling has died.


How did you come to that conclusion? Is there something hidden in the flash video? I think by now we know that Grouard left her to protect her.

@Shad0
W00t! You rock! However, I have to say, you shouldn't risk your job.

@rose
Do we know that Clay is the most innocent person? Wasn't there something he did that put him in prison? I can't really remember that. I found it was odd how he told Clay to get out of the city and soon after he leads him to his certain death, not paying attention AT ALL. Something must have happened in between? Is it possible that Kerry found out what Clay did? I know it's a cliche, but...did he molest a minor, perhaps? I can see how that would change Kerry's opinion of him, completely.
Or did Kerry just use him?

Edit: LOL. Fixed!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:56 pm
Last edited by Abraxas on Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Astald
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@Abraxas
Your post makes it look like I said that. I didn't, but I will answer for you. Wink
It isn't hidden in the flash video. It is the main focus of the flash video. Grouard tracked down the Sioux, but found that snowfalling fell ill and she later died. They buried her, even though he thought she would disagree with it. And to drive the point home on maryalicechamber's profile her status is "offline". There is more in the flash video after the snow if maybe you never watched past that.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:32 pm
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Abraxas
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Astald wrote:
There is more in the flash video after the snow if maybe you never watched past that.

Hm, I let it run in the background to see if there is something else, but I forgot about it and when I returned to it there was the usual snow falling. I'm not patient to enough to watch the video until something happens, because for a long time, nothing happens. Wink

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:09 pm
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