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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: Questions/Meta
Warning to Firebox shoppers
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mupdan
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Bath, UK

 		Luckily this story has a happy ending. I've had a reply from Firebox, and they've sent me another 8 packs to make up for it, and have assured me that the packs are being well mixed.

This is way beyond what I was hoping for, and the response was reasonably quick too. Certainly no complaints about their complaints procedure!

Hopefully I was just a statistical anomally (after all, million to one chances occur 9 times out of 10) and it won't happen again.

Thankyou firebox! (assuming the next 8 aren't all wave 1 too!)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:33 am
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MrsMonkey
Kilroy

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 2

 		No fair!

I just had an e-mail off Firebox saying there was nothing they could do because it's a random selection!

Really annoyed now - time for another e-mail I think!

Don't want to buy anymore cards off Firebox but am a bit limited as the official site doesn't lisy anywhere in Wales selling them........

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:22 am
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josiah
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 97
Location: Blackpool, UK

 		Here's the e-mail I sent to firebox, copied in to cards@perplex city when I got 4 wave 1 packs in my order which I placed on the day they went for sale:

Quote:

Hi,

I ordered 4 packs of perplex city cards in the above order yesterday. They arrived today (prompt as always!), however all four packs were from Wave 1.

After spending the past few months collecting my Wave 1 cards, it was frustrating enough that we couldn't just buy Wave 2 cards on their own, but your website says that they are mixed in the ratio 3:1. So, when I ordered my cards, I was expecting 3 Wave 2 packs and 1 Wave 1 pack. Now, I have some knowledge of probability, and I am well aware that if the packs are distributed randomly I could have got 4 wave 2 packs or 2 wave 2 packs, and even if I only got 1 Wave 2 pack, then I could have understood it. But I didn't get a single Wave 2 pack in my order, so I've basically just thrown a tenner down the drain!!! I just find it highly improbable that the Wave 1 and 2 packs are mixed at a 3:1 ratio, either that or they've not been properly mixed and I think it more likely that you're just trying to shift old stock onto me!!!

If wave 1 cards and wave 2 cards are truly randomly assorted, then the probability of a random pack from the pile would be ¼ of being a Wave 1 and ¾ of being a Wave 2. For me to get 4 Wave 1 packs, the probability would therefore be ¼4 = 1/256, which is the same probability as flipping a coin 8 times in a row and getting heads each time. Go on. Get a coin out and try it. I bet you don't get 8 heads in a row!

Please let me know what you can do about it as there clearly is no point me continuing collecting perplex city cards if I am going to have to spend 10 or 20 quid to get 1 pack! However, if you wish me to return the goods, please be aware that I have eaten the fun gums and you won't be getting those back.


The repy I got from cardsSPLATperplexcity.com:

Quote:

Hello Anthony,

Thanks for your email and for clearly being an avid player of Perplex City. We hope that you continue to be!

We were worried that your order placed yesterday at Firebox had been supplied from stock of wave 1 only cards, but this turned out not to be the case. Also, your calculations as to the probability of receiving 4 wave 1 packs in an order are broadly correct - around 1 in 256. Enough orders were sent out from Firebox yesterday for what happened to you to probably happen to one or two other people.

At the moment, we have to take on trust the ratios provided to us by our printers. This is a problem that we'll be looking at very closely to make sure that the ratios we've been provided are indeed correct.

Best regards,

Perplex City Customer Service

PS. It's okay about the fun gums. We've got some more in a cupboard.


The reply I got from Firebox:

Quote:

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your email. I am very sorry that you are unsatisfied with your cards. I can completely understand where you are coming from, but this is a gamble. No one know what is in a pack until it is opened.
I too understand probability, and it is highly unlikely that you have revived the cards you have, but it is not impossible.
The very nature of the game is to swap, with others and to increase your collection, and advance in the game that way. These can be traded online.

Again I am very sorry that you feel this way, but if you cast your mind back to any collectible card game, Footballs cards etc. they were also all random, the luck of the draw.


So it sounds like the wave 1 cards are all mixed in with the wave 2 cards, I suspect that they are mixed in the boxes at a 3:1 ratio, but the boxes aren't randomly sorted, which is why we're all getting such odd mixtures of cards.

I also almost sent an e-mail back to firebox to point out that it's not quite like the football stickers, as if the Premier Leage 2005 stickers randomly contained last years stickers, there would have been a lot of Newsagents that got a lot of abuse Wink

I've just ordered a load of cards now so I'll count the number of Wave 1 packs and Wave 2 packs when we get them on Monday. I do remember that with the Wave 1 packs, the printers didn't do a very good job of randomising the packs.... after we got a big pile of cards from the treasure hunt in london, I opened my pack and it had exactly the same cards as the persons next to me.

What firebox need to do, is open up all the boxes, stick them in a big tub and stir them up a bit Wink

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:49 am
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European Chris
Unfictologist


Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1264
Location: London's trendy Whitechapel
josiah wrote:
I do remember that with the Wave 1 packs, the printers didn't do a very good job of randomising the packs.... after we got a big pile of cards from the treasure hunt in london, I opened my pack and it had exactly the same cards as the persons next to me.


These issues don't appear to have been resolved with the wave two cards.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:41 am
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ChalcoDoror
Veteran

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 148

 		Just got 15 packs from firebox
13 wave 2, 2 wave 1 both with silvers, so I'm fairly happy at the moment.
They were 3 separate orders though, which may have helped things.
Both wave 1 packs were in the same order.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:47 am
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mupdan
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Bath, UK

 		Okay, guys and girls, just had another email from Firebox. Turns out it was a mistake that I got sent replacement cards, and I get the feeling that the person who did it may be in a bit of trouble. I've been asked to return the wave 1 cards I got sent too (which will be fun, extracting them from my swap pile!)

Please, PLEASE don't complain to firebox asking for replacements quoting my case, as I feel bad enough for getting somebody into trouble. (I said I didn't like complaining!)

My new theory on the matter is that they group the wave 1 and 2 packs within the boxes, and that they need a bit of mixing up. Hopefully the matter will be resolved following the several hundred complaints they seem to be receiving!

Good luck with your wave 2 collections.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:00 am
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just passing
Guest


 		I've only just started with PPC cards, so please forgive my ignorance: how do you tell wave 1 cards from wave 2? All 48 cards I bought have "Limited Edition Pre release wave 0.5" below the number?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:52 am
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frankieroberto
Boot


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 69
Location: London, UK

 		You can't tell from the cards - they haven't been numbered seperately. There's probably a list somewhere out there, but if you've only just started then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

The only difficulty will be that you'll soon have more wave 2 cards than wave 1 cards - but you should be able to sort that out by swapping with people who have been collecting from Wave 1.

For example I have lots of spare Wave 1 cards that'd I'd gladly swap for the Wave 2 cards that I still need.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:32 pm
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Juxta
Unfettered

Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 675

 		Outwardly, there is no real way to tell between wave 1 and wave 2 packs. However, the list below covers which were in which set.

Wave 1

Red
#009 - Red - Ishihara
#013 - Red - Sphinx
#014 - Red - Cracked Crackers
#015 - Red - Milo
#017 - Red - Easy As...
#018 - Red - Natal Name
#019 - Red - Magic Numbers
#025 - Red - Read Between The Lines
#027 - Red - Bar None

Orange
#041 - Orange - Whipsmart Wordsearch
#042 - Orange - Pirates vs Ninjas
#045 - Orange - Snake Eyes
#046 - Orange - Sum Shortcut
#050 - Orange - Eight States
#051 - Orange - Jigsaw
#054 - Orange - 9 Ball
#057 - Orange - Volume
#059 - Orange - Urban Myths

Yellow
#074 - Yellow - WordSpy
#075 - Yellow - Poison Pill
#078 - Yellow - Edible Love
#079 - Yellow - Strange Loops
#082 - Yellow - Sharp Red
#087 - Yellow - Bar Crossing
#088 - Yellow - Pyramidal
#089 - Yellow - Forever Foe
#091 - Yellow - Twisty Little Passages

Green
#105 - Green - Arrange My Lace Bits
#106 - Green - Rickety Old Bridge
#107 - Green - Blockword
#110 - Green - Freudian Texts
#111 - Green - Opening Lines
#112 - Green - Three Little Words
#117 - Green - Band Name Etymology
#120 - Green - Cube Tube
#123 - Green - Illogical

Blue
#137 - Blue - Sub Rosa
#138 - Blue - Geek Antiques
#139 - Blue - This Sentence Is False
#140 - Blue - Mornington Crescent
#145 - Blue - The Red Ace
#146 - Blue - You Are Cordially Invited
#149 - Blue - Complex Basic
#152 - Blue - Barcode Recipe
#155 - Blue - Sadako Sasaki

Purple
#170 - Purple - Vexillogy
#171 - Purple - Witch Script
#172 - Purple - Freefall
#176 - Purple - The Lake
#179 - Purple - By Another Name
#181 - Purple - Down, A, B, Up, Up, Right
#182 - Purple - Transit
#184 - Purple - Love Letters
#185 - Purple - Spin Cycle

Black
#206 - Black - Mexid Massege
#208 - Black - Freak Word
#210 - Black - New Notation
#215 - Black - Harmony
#217 - Black - Tower of Cubes
#219 - Black - The Master of Secrets

Silver
#238 - Silver - Riemann
#240 - Silver - Elucidate
#241 - Silver - T-L-P
#243 - Silver - Shuffled
#244 - Silver - Syzygy Cube
#251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour

Wave 2

Red
#010 - Red - Spot Anything?
#011 - Red - Revelation
#012 - Red - Alco-Poetry
#016 - Red - XXX
#020 - Red - Barbeque
#021 - Red - Divide By Three
#022 - Red - Cold Fission
#023 - Red - Pack O'Stars
#024 - Red - Double Vision


Orange
#043 - Orange - Use Your Anterior Cingulate
#044 - Orange - You Are Here
#047 - Orange - Opposites Attract
#048 - Orange - Pop Words
#049 - Orange - Bookworm
#052 - Orange - The View From Here
#053 - Orange - Etaoin Schrdlu
#055 - Orange - Speed Sight
#056 - Orange - Gravity

Yellow
#073 - Yellow - Animal Magic
#076 - Yellow - Close Up
#077 - Yellow - Mondegreen
#080 - Yellow - Cruel and Unusual
#081 - Yellow - What Car?
#083 - Yellow - Pawnbroking
#084 - Yellow - Insights
#085 - Yellow - Sweet Dreams (Although technically, this card was first seen at E3, Wave 2 is it's initial "general" release)
#086 - Yellow - A Pair of Squares

Green
#108 - Green - My Three Children
#109 - Green - Infinite Series
#113 - Green - A Capital Idea
#114 - Green - Taking the Biscuit
#115 - Green - The Age of Sente
#116 - Green - The Rice Gambit
#118 - Green - Chemistry Experiment
#119 - Green - Mind the Gap
#121 - Green - Seven Bridges

Blue
#141 - Blue - Love Code
#142 - Blue - Photoshopped
#143 - Blue - Pocket Rockets
#144 - Blue - Mastermind
#147 - Blue - Directionless
#148 - Blue - Serious Scientific Sokoban
#150 - Blue - A Journey in the Desert
#151 - Blue - Crazy Talk
#153 - Blue - The Spider and the Fly

Purple
#169 - Purple - Queen Quandary
#173 - Purple - The 14-15 Puzzle
#174 - Purple - Jaunty Paul
#175 - Purple - Binary
#177 - Purple - Consider a Spherical World
#178 - Purple - Sex Linked
#180 - Purple - ARG!
#183 - Purple - Drinking Gourd
#187 - Purple - Logical Fallacies

Black
#209 - Black - Little Pigley Farm
#211 - Black - Molecular
#212 - Black - Whipsmart Birthday
#213 - Black - We Be Rational Pirates! Arr!
#214 - Black - Traces
#216 - Black - Formal Logic

Silver
#242 - Silver - Ciphers of History
#245 - Silver - Relativity
#246 - Silver - Homage in Glass
#247 - Silver - Polar
#248 - Silver - Differently Lethal
#249 - Silver - The Angel's Key

Hope that's useful

J

Edit: Corrected number for #153
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:57 pm
Last edited by Juxta on Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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doublecross
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 588
Location: London, UK

 		Ditto - I have the vast majority of the wave 1 cards available for swapping. Check out perplexcitytrades, although for some reason it does not list The 14-15 Puzzle or The Angel's Key.

The waves are denoted in this table. To get a card number, add the number on the left to the number at the top.

Code:
             0000 0000 0111 1111 1112 2222 2222 2333
             1234 5678 9012 3456 7890 1234 5678 9012
(000) Red    .... .... 1222 1112 1112 2222 1.1. ....
(032) Orange .... .... 1122 1122 2112 2122 1.1. ....
(064) Yellow .... .... 2112 2112 2122 2211 1.1. ....
(096) Blue   .... .... 1112 2111 2222 1221 2.1. ....
(128) Green  .... .... 1111 2222 1122 1221 2.1. ....
(160) Purple .... .... 2111 2221 2212 1121 1.2. ....
(192) Black  .... .... .... .1.1 2122 2212 1.1. ....
(224) Silver .... .... .... .1.1 1211 2222 2.1. ....


And if that's too complicated, how about this:

Wave 1:
Red 9 13 14 15 17 18 19 25 27
Orange 41 42 45 46 50 51 54 57 59
Yellow 74 75 78 79 82 87 88 89 91
Green 105 106 107 110 111 112 117 120 123
Blue 137 138 139 140 145 146 149 152 155
Purple 170 171 172 176 179 181 182 184 185
Black 206 208 210 215 217 219
Silver 238 240 241 243 244 251
Wave 2:
Red 10 11 12 16 20 21 22 23 24
Orange 43 44 47 48 49 52 53 55 56
Yellow 73 76 77 80 81 83 84 85 86
Green 108 109 113 114 115 116 118 119 121
Blue 141 142 143 144 147 148 150 151 153
Purple 169 173 174 175 177 178 180 183 187
Black 209 211 212 213 214 216
Silver 242 245 246 247 248 249
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:09 pm
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Jaeneas
Boot


Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Leicester, England.

 		Hi

I ordered some cards then read the forum - Doh!

So I emailed Firebox to ask them if the problem had been sorted out. The reply was....

"We have had one customer email us saying that he had received only wave one cards. We can assure you that this is purely down to extremely bad luck. The Perplex city cards are all simply put in one big box, mixed around and selected at random. We have no idea which one's you are receiving but the odds are highly in favour of you getting wave two as listed on the website."

TTFN
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:06 pm
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philippa89
Boot

Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 43

 		My order contained 3 wave 2 packs and 1 wave 1 pack, (all ones i already have but 3:1 is what they said so i didnt mind).
But i ordered some more on Saturday when the 5 for 4 offer was on and today i was delievered an empty envelope... well it wasnt quite empty it had the firebox catalog and my invoice, but no cards or fun gums Sad
Wasnt best pleased as im sure you can all imagine.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:14 pm
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stevereverett
Boot

Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 12

 		still waiting for my saturday order

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:30 pm
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lauriek
Boot

Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Kent, UK

 		My order placed saturday didn't come today either... Firebox are normally very quick and they did state that it was dispatched saturday so I spose its down to the couriers...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:51 pm
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stevereverett
Boot

Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 12

 		I never knew of a courier that picked up items on a weekend. Its prob arriving tomorrow as they picked it up today.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm
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