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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Game Launches and Us-My Opinion
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

 		Game Launches and Us-My Opinion
With the recent L3 emails, folks have once again had much lively discussion on many things, from community sharing, to sitting on clues, to launch techniques, to being left out or being forced in, etc. etc. etc.

I for one want to give kudos to whomever the PMs were here. I think they were trying to be innovative, and I really appreciate that. I would much rather see someone try something new than see the same old techniques used over and over again. After all, you never know if something's gonna work if you don't try it. Like WB said, if anyone knows the 'right' way to launch, let us know.

Additionally, I think we as a community can have a tendency to be overly critical sometimes. It's easy to do when the folks you're being critical of are nameless and faceleless and can't defend themselves Smile I think we need to be a lot more tolerant of stuff, especially if it seems that it's homegrown. If we create an atmosphere of angst, grassroots PMs are just going to not even want to try anything, and that's sure not what we want, is it?

Now in my opinion, 'pro' games can be a little more open game, as they're in business to get it right Wink , but if it's a volunteer team of PMs, shouldn't we not hold them to exactly the same standard? I mean, sure, we want good, quality ARGs, but geez, shouldn't we be not so ready to pounce? I see a lot of folks eager to be critical right off the bat, but not a lot ready to do it better, ya know what I mean? Now, as time goes on, and things aren't working, sure, let yourself be heard. But let's give things a chance to at least get out of the gate before they're shot down.

I think it's becoming clear that the ARG community is becoming a place that not only plays third-party ARGs, but also enjoys authoring things for each other's enjoyment. I mean, look at the long list of games/puzzles that have been created by us, for us: From P33r's timewasters, to birthday trails, all the way up to ARGs like CAOOC, LockJaw, etc. These are labors of love.

Lighten up and enjoy! Very Happy

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:01 pm
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moa-Night
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Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 70

 		You bring up a good point.

Personally, I don't think criticism of games is necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's constructive and isn't nasty to the PMs. This goes for both the professional and volunteer games. Something that doesn't work well or doesn't have the desired affect should be brought to the PM's attention, as well as the community at large so it can be addressed and fixed.

With L3 as the example, they tried something new and people had issues with it. If those issues weren't brought up, how would the PMs know how it went over and how would prospective PMs know if they want to try it or something else? Flaming the PMs doesn't help either, but I think that politely brining up opinions on how the game is being run is a good thing for the genre as a whole.

Agree or disagree, that's my take on it.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:28 pm
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
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 		Okay, sure. I'll be the first to admit to my LivePlanet bashing, but they made obvious technical mistakes in putting up live sites, etc. that caused a lot of wasted time to a lot of players.

I guess I'm just saying we need to give games a chance and not write them off before they're even out of the batters box. I seem to remember a certain moderator quelling an uprising of impatient people during a 'slow' rollout of a certain website back in February. Wink

Don't get me wrong. Criticism is good, it should just be perhaps focused a little differently when aimed at grassroots PMs, as your point about them knowing their audience better is well taken.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:53 pm
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Dark Side Of The Moon
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 167
Location: Between the outer edge of inner space and the inner edge of Outer Space...
vpisteve wrote:


Don't get me wrong. Criticism is good, it should just be perhaps focused a little differently when aimed at grassroots PMs, as your point about them knowing their audience better is well taken.


I agree with you Steve...most of the "grassroot" ARG's out there are a labor of love...and I also agree that more slack should be given with them over "professional" ARG's...let's look at the difference...

Grassroots are generally a labor of love, give it a stab, see how I do campaigns that are launched for fun...these people took the time to construct a puzzle/game not only for the benefit of seeing how they do in the ARG world, but they also construct them for the enjoyment of others in that field that like to play them...why should we give them grief or a hard time over some deficences that may arise in their campaign? If it needs to be done, then do so in a constuctive manner so that they can take the critique as a suggestion to improve their game to improve the playability of their game, not as a slam...let's enpower and build-up the community...not rip down and destroy it....that benefits no one.

As for Professional...well, that's the problem in a nutshell. It's supposed to be professional...whether that be in game play, design, maturity or whatever...the level of anticipation and what is expected is higher...if you pay money to join these things, then there is an expection of professionalism to ensue that will live up to your anticipation...when it fails to deliver that level your expecting, that's when it starts to fall apart.

Let's look at Noah Boddy as an example...now, it's totally free to play and grassrootish in it's approach (born from the abandoned Push fiasco) and as such, should not be critiqued as bad as it has now become on the boards...they were just trying to do right by the people that where abandoned by Push and thus they had a somewhat built in audience and somewhat fill-in the void left from Push...

But that's where the problem game in...in their launch attempt...it came off as professional and they rode the Push coat tails, thus raising the level of expectation of the game that they have since stalled and therefore are experiencing a backlash on the boards, including myself. I expected more from them than they were able to deliver....thus dissappointment. However, if your not expecting much when you start up and it's a half way decent game/campaign, then you say to yourself "Hey! That was fun!" or "Gee, that was really a good game."

In other words, if I had exactly the same game, but I launched it it two different ways, I'd have different results...If I go quiet and grassroots I'll get a "Attaboy" and a "Good job!!" because expectaions are low...but if I had exactly the same material and launched it with a bunch of hoopla and fan fare, I'd be willing to bet that I'd get negative feedback or "Eh, it's allright..." responses...

We are, after all, only Human....

Well, must of are anyways...lol...

And that's just Human nature...

But ultimately the best judge of the game is the game itself...if it's fun, well paced and interesting with no gimmie puzzles or Einstienian ballbreakers to halt it, you will have a winner on your hands no matter what...but if you have a game that gets bogged down in puzzles that nobody can solve, the fun stops and and the frustration starts,and who the hell wants that?

I know I don't...

That's why we're all here...to have some fun and use some brain cells once in a while, not to suffer and be miserable.

Thanks for listening to my rantings...lol...

John
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:42 am
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

 		As someone who was not an original email recipient (but did get to briefly chat with "someone" from LLL on Yahoo IM; just enough for them to ask for my email contact), I feel that I can be a representative of the "audience" for this game.

I saw different puzzles, wonderful discussion, great teamwork, pats on the back, and a potential new campaign (they did claim 6 more cycles). I thought this was a great launch and it looked like you all had a fun time solving the ciphers. Isn't this what it is all about, the fun?

Even though I lack some of the deciphering software you needed in the first cycle, I'm hoping I get to participate in the next round.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:48 am
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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 		Holy thread resurrection, Batman! Shocked

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:57 pm
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RobMagus
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
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 		The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:51 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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RobMagus wrote:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.


Must float like a leaf on the river of life...and kill old lady.

Er, sorry, what were you saying?

In all seriousness, do the posters in this thread still feel the same way 3 years later?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:01 pm
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
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Phaedra wrote:

In all seriousness, do the posters in this thread still feel the same way 3 years later?


Are you kidding? I started reading from the top without noticing when this thread started..

halfway through I was thinking "YES! Excellent points.. exactly what I was thinking.. but why are they using old games as examples? eh.."

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:21 pm
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Saevitia
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 		This point of view needs more screen time. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:00 am
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SirQuady
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 		What was LLL?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:23 pm
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Ciaran_H
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Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 123
Location: England, UK

 		I'm glad it's not just me who didn't know. Smile I just took a search and it appears to be a site that was used in Acheron, for Landau, Luckman, and Lake.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:43 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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SirQuady wrote:
What was LLL?


Ciaran is correct, L3 was a component of the Acheron game which ran several years ago.

Sir Q, The amount of info stored in the archives is much greater than it was when I started. But you can always take a look at the games that many of us old... *ahem* those of us who have been here a few years have experienced.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:25 pm
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SirQuady
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 		Old-timers can be a term of respect, MageSteff. You know that don't you? Laughing Wink

Yeah, i have searched throught the archives, but i couldn't find an ARG named LLL after a little searching (the archives are big!), so i figured i'd ask here.

And now that i think of it, i could've/should've used the search tool...but i didn't.

Thanks, in any case, Ciaran_H, and MageSteff, you old-timer you. Laughing
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There once was a [person] from [place]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:26 pm
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