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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Player Betrayals and UnFiction
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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Location: My own alternate reality

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:36 am
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wraith
Boot


Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Seattle, WA

 		I'm going to have to pipe up here and vote in favor of using "Puppet Master". There's one very simple and very compelling reason to use it:

The players bestowed it.

It wasn't something the PMs called themselves. It wasn't thought up by a commitee. The players just started using it.

I believe they gave it in good faith. For the most part they weren't implying anything sinister by it. It was a nod to the mysterious, shadowy nature of the beast, to the behind-the-scenes control, and (I like to think anyway) a left handed compliment. It DID imply expectation and responsibility.

They understood they were being entertained. And they expected the puppet masters, like their namesakes, to put on a good show. Every good PM knows that the material strings they pull are on the puppets not the audience. It's the performance that pulls on the audience.

So I say use it, in honor of the players, and as a reminder that we're all responsible for putting on a good show.

--Dan Carver.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:17 am
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SirQuady
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 576

 		I actually really like the term Pupper Master, but if it makes you feel any better, HaxanMike, just pretend PM stands for "Pwnage Masta" or "Play Master"!

Actually, "Play Master" works good, legitimatley. Surprised
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:20 am
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Omnie
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772
Phaedra wrote:
I know there have been some ARGs that had different teams, but did any of them actually manage to intentionally create real divisions -- that is, groups working toward opposed goals and not sharing information with one another? (This isn't a rhetorical question, btw -- I'm asking.)


I dunno about that, but here's an unintentional real division for you: Interesting thing happened in Wildfire Industries/Synagoga after the merger. (Pre-merger, I understand that WI had PM-encouraged factions, but I didn't follow WI and can't comment on how it worked out.) I played only the Synagoga side until the merger, and some of us Synagoga players came to care for the title character kind of strongly (she was like a four-year-old! a sweet, helpless, sort of abused four-year-old who likes kitties and quacking like a duck! heh, it was very manipulative).

So, post-merger, we found out that she was actually an experiment being run and controlled by the WI company, and many of the WI players were "employees" in that company, or at least had come to care about the various WI characters. Those of us who were loyal to Synagoga were concerned that WI didn't have her best interests at heart, so the more, um, insane of us formed a sort of Synagoga faction. It wasn't a big thing, but we had a little sekrit chatroom and everything, where we planned to look out for Synagoga's welfare, whether that meant just keeping her secrets from the WI-loyal (and therefore "untrustworthy") players, or actively doing whatever was needed to keep her safe, like possibly freeing her from WI's clutches somehow. Sadly, the game ended soon after, so we didn't get to see how it would play out, but it would have been interesting if we'd gotten to a point where our voluntary factionation had an effect on the storyline.

The important thing to note here is that this was entirely spontaneous and voluntary on the part of the players. It felt like a natural outgrowth of the circumstances, and it was a real division, which was probably why it was so much fun.

Of course, it probably helped that the pre-merge WI phase of the game already had a faction-ish atmosphere, and then with the merger we had two groups of players (with a bit of overlap) with different goals and loyalties who now had to coalesce somehow. Still, this wasn't about PMs setting up explicit rivalries with their own boards and whatnot.

I think an essential aspect of it was that we didn't really know most of the WI players and hadn't just played the rest of the ARG with them – most of us had no idea that the two ARGs were at all connected until the merge happened (and brains went splody), so we didn't feel that sense of collective collaboration that rises up so quickly in a typical ARG environment. I mean, we felt it with each other, but not with the other group of players. In fact, I suppose our ARGy collectiveness encouraged an us vs. them mentality in relation to the other group, as tends to happen whenever there's a sudden influx of new players to a game. (I remember the same sort of feeling coming up in Metacortechs, as a Matrix fan vs. ARG player sort of divide.) The difference there is that the groups of players usually have no reason to work at cross-purposes. So, unusual circumstances made it happen.

(incidentally, I'd be interested to know how the PMs felt about what happened. Did they mean for the post-merge groups to work for opposing goals, and did they orchestrate the circumstances that way, or did it just kind of happen? They were certainly aware of what was going on, since we invited Synagoga into the sekrit chatroom. It's been a while, so I don't really remember whether there was any discussion on this topic post-game.)

It was the most RPG-like that an ARG has ever been for me. Lots of fun, but very different from any other ARG experience that I've had before or since. Not something that I'd necessarily want to repeat (I'm a fan of the storyline-over-interaction dynamic-narrative sort of ARG), but it was good times, and it kind of makes an interesting case study now.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:47 am
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SirQuady
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 576

 		This is becoming quite the discussion!

It makes me wonder, what would it be like to PM a game that intentionally created divisions? I mean, i don't actually want to do it, because of the possibilities of ruining the ARG experience for other players, and thus, i don't think i will ever PM an ARG that divides the players, but it is an interesting thing to think about!


As a side note:
Omnie wrote:

most of us had no idea that the two ARGs were at all connected until the merge happened (and brains went splody)

the word "splody" may just be the funniest word i've heard all month!
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There once was a [person] from [place]
Whose [body part] was [special case].
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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SirQuady wrote:
This is becoming quite the discussion!

It makes me wonder, what would it be like to PM a game that intentionally created divisions? I mean, i don't actually want to do it, because of the possibilities of ruining the ARG experience for other players, and thus, i don't think i will ever PM an ARG that divides the players, but it is an interesting thing to think about!




See the game AWARE. Although once it broke into factions posting anything to UF became problematic for many. After the forming of factions play became limited to the In Game boards over at IU, where you had to declare for a faction before you could see that factions board.

As someone who got to see that experiment from behind the curtain, I saw a lot of frustration in solving puzzles simply because the factions were so small that it took a lot longer to solve the harder ones simply because the amount of brain power available was a lot less. My PERSONAL opinion, is that it hurt the players more than it helped create a new experience for the players.
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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:08 pm
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SirQuady
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
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MageSteff wrote:
My PERSONAL opinion, is that it hurt the players more than it helped create a new experience for the players.


That's pretty much what i expected would happen.
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There once was a [person] from [place]
Whose [body part] was [special case].
When [event] would occur,
It would cause [him or her]
To violate [law of time/space].

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:42 pm
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C_Brennan
Decorated


Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 236
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Omnie wrote:

(incidentally, I'd be interested to know how the PMs felt about what happened. Did they mean for the post-merge groups to work for opposing goals, and did they orchestrate the circumstances that way, or did it just kind of happen? They were certainly aware of what was going on, since we invited Synagoga into the sekrit chatroom. It's been a while, so I don't really remember whether there was any discussion on this topic post-game.)


Well, since you feel interested into our opinions, we will gladly offer them, lol. Very Happy

First of all, you were right in the "Synagoga Faction". It wasn't a "planned for" move, and we never really considered the idea that players might actually create another group of the game that would be totally devoted to saving and helping Synagoga and Synagoga only. However, it was quite clear that after the "Against the Will of God" website took off and Synagoga became a very popular character (so popular that she actually pulled more attention from the community than WI did at the time, I think) that we realized that people had the potential to create this "4th faction".

With this realization, we did understand and eventually came to expect a Synagoga "faction" from the players by studying their play habits and how much they were talking about the game and how they were talking about the game. However, because the game wasn't suppose to last long after the merger, we were kinda sure that this wouldn't have a huge impact on the gameplay. Still, even though we thought it wouldn't have an impact, we made contingency plans anyway and were prepared just incase the game lashed out in a different direction.

That's the way most of Wildfire Industries progressed, as a social game that was very open to interpretation and change. This is where I think WI differs very much from AWARE, even though I've heard people call WI "Nothing more than Mini-AWARE". Where as AWARE was puzzle and plotline oriented game, WI was a game of one giant social situation and mystery. Puzzles never really drove the game forward, they only provided players with more ammunition against the companies. And the weekly "company projects" gave the players a chance to compete amongst themselves and the other players for a chance at recognition, very much like a real company.

However, in the end, I must say this. The PvP format is a dangerous one to use, even when it does succeed. I would say that WI did succeed, but at a cost of players and some player's emotions. I know that some people did express that WI felt more like work and less like a game, because it was able to mimic a crappy work environment too well. I also know that people became burned out on the game's politics and fighting with one another, and some people were driven to leave the game because of it. That was not cool in the least, and I was glad at these times that I was standing in-front of the curtain of WI and not hiding behind it. While it may be a traditional rule to stay hidden, WI was not a traditional game and did require some PM interference to make sure things did not get out of hand.

That in itself was very interesting though. We had always planned for WI to hit some emotional highs and lows, and we always planned and encouraged players to play dirty with one another. It was a game of black comedic satire against business. We wanted the competition and some of the emotion. We just never thought players would take it as far as it did at some times, especially when all signs show that the ARG community is a group of people who share information. What we guessed was that the two sides, even though they worked for different companies, were going to still share information. And, yes, they did share information... but things just got amazingly nasty sometimes between them. Very unexpected, yet not unexpected I guess.

I'm finishing up my entire thoughts with WI, actually. I'm going to be posting a commentary on my blog about this subject, as well as more information about WI. I'll make a post here when I get it completed.... it's a long piece of work.

-Sera (Colin) Brennan
WI Lead Writer
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"Here's a kitty, there's a kitty, my kitty too! Kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty... um... I ran out of rhyme..."
-Synagoga, after getting her first cat from "Auntie" Seraphina

In-Play: The Dark Knight

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:48 pm
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miss_seph
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 395
Location: New Zealand
C_Brennan wrote:
...but things just got amazingly nasty sometimes between them.


I'll second that!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:44 pm
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weephun
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 908
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Phaedra wrote:
They were a little taken aback when a rat bastard certain player gave her up without hesitation to the entity that was trying to kill her.

*mwa* Wink

Phaedra wrote:
I don't think we need to worry that it will "unravel" UF. Have a little faith in the PMs. Smile

Here, here.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:40 pm
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