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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Is imitation the sincerest form of flattery? (ILB2)
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C_Brennan- nli
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 		Is imitation the sincerest form of flattery? (ILB2)
Ok, in an attempt to avoid people from arguing in the ILB2 thread, I'm making this one to bring any criticism about that game from the main thread for it into the meta section, where it is better off and be tended to like a small animal.

First of all, there have been many people who have been confused by ILB2. Some people (whatever their reasons may be) think it IS a sequel. Although we have aggressively determined it is not a sequel (spoofed e-mails, poor website design... etc...) it is still a game that has been put out there to be played.

But the question being asked is thus: Is imitation the sincerest form of flattery?

As we've said before, this isn't the first time we've been over another ILB game. (See: Lenny's Xenga) But I think the overall difference here that most people are disgruntled with is the fact that this new game, unlike Lenny's Xenga, has been attempting to bill itself as official instead of a piece of fanfiction.

Personally, I'm all for fanfiction. Vpisteve brought up the fact that Metacortechs was a game that was also a fanfiction, but a very good piece of fanfiction that was so well done it is close to being regarded as official. However, Metacortechs didn't attempt to bill itself as Matrix 1.5. None of us are running out to make a game that we could sell as Halo 3. Chronosis got finished with .hack//fragmented_twilight, an ARG based in .hack, but it's only a piece of fanfiction using our own characters in an already estabished setting. Yet, even though none of us are doing that, we have this game which is calling itself "ILB2".

My personal instincts are telling me not to play this game because of lack of quality and a lack of ethical standards. A simple understanding of "This is not your work, don't use it to forward yourself" comes to mind. And, of course, the copyright issues we discussed during Lenny's Xenga.

So, as our beloved Imbri likes to say:

-discuss

-Sera

EDIT - went ahead and changed the name from "guest" to Brennan, in light of stupid forum login timeouts Wink Write faster! Very Happy - SG

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:39 am
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C_Brennan
Decorated


Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 236
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

 		Yes... that was me above... The forums thought it would be funny to log me out as I took too long to write the above. Sad

Edit: Thanks Scarpe. Very Happy I had to go to class! Lol.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:41 am
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Nos
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 380
Location: missing the desert

 		Okay, I can actually throw my two cents in on this one, because in the actual fanfiction and fanvids fandom (to much fan!), this issue comes up ALOT.

I only caught the tail end of ILB, so I don't know what this game is lacking that the other had. I can't speak for it. But I can talk about plagiarism vs fanfiction. Fanfiction is a great a thing. In some fandoms, (the Jossverse fandom, for instance), it's actually encourged by the original creators. Simply because it's a form of viral marketing that costs nothing to create. But, in fanfiction, it's a given that everyone reading your work will know that you are in fact, not Joss Whedon. Nor are you getting any kind of pay for what you do. You are just playing in his sandbox. With ARGs such as this, it's less clear to the casual observer. And the fact that whoever is creating this is going out of his/her way to make it look like a Microsoft production is raising red flags to me. Now, if from the begining, we knew this was a fan made production, it might be different. But with ARGing, it's harder to do that, I would assume, given the secrecy that surrounds most games.

I do know that in the world of fanfiction, plagiarism is not taken lightly. If you take someone elses fic (or even a segment) and try and pass it off as written by you, all hell breaks loose. Of course, 99% of the time, the plagiarist cannot fathom why it would matter.

So the question here is: Is this fanfiction or out right plagiarism? Since it's unclear as to who created it, can plagiarism even exist in the world of ARGs? Aside from taking actual dialouge and storyline and puzzle ideas, of course.

YMMV
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:29 pm
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		RANT WARNING
RANT WARNING!

There are lots of sides to this question.

The fan that doesn't want to let go of a beloved character.
The other players who were hoping to see a product of the same quality as the first one.
The PM's who may be flattered by the imitation...
The PM's who love the character that they worked so hard to develop be taken in a direction the character would NEVER go.
Some PM's who wish the imitators would get a kloo and make their own story and not a knock off of an original design. (Note this doesn't mean the ARG is lesser quality, just that it is a similar looking design produced by a less well known designer.)

Think about all the Matrix fan discussions that happened when Metacortechs came on the scene. They thought they would see old and beloved characters. They were disappointed when they did not, and then found out it wasn't by the people who did the Matrix. This doesn't mean that the ARG has lesser quality, it just means it didn't meet the players expectations for what was originally implied (or that the player felt was implied).

I personally don't like the idea of calling a fan continuation of a story XYZ2 simply because it is not the second installment of the story as the original producers would have told it. Do a spoof, come up with your own idea, but for pity's sake make sure you take the time to develop the story and not just rely on carry over good feelings from the original.

ILB2 fan made a big mistake - falsifying headers. This is a big no-no in my book and one reason "spamhauses" are hated universally. If you have to spoof the e-mail address of a beloved character in order to get noticed, then go away and don't bother me, because you have broken several rules of net etiquette at that point. If you can't come up with a novel way for me to discover your fan worship (and in ILB2 case a simple notice over on a Bungie or other HALO board would have done), then please don't pretend to be one of my friends, for I will report you to your ISP and work to get your account there closed and cut you off at the knees. This is my personal feeling, but you have got to learn to play by some rules if you want my attention. Faking addresses is hits me in one of my pet peeves, and I will give a knee jerk reaction.

I don't like trolls who try to misdirect players by faking being a character in a running game, I have no patience for little troll wannabees who can't come up with a new character based in the HALO universe. Surely the HALO console games have more than Melissa and the sleeping Princess. Bang Head Censored

If you don't have that much creativity to find a different character to use, then, in my personal opinion you are no better than a troll who has no idea of the amount of work someone did to come up with that unique character, the background that effects how the character will react.
In general, you are just a plain and simple Flaming Nutter

Spoofs are great, they show creativity, a desire to continue laughing and to continue thinking about the tiny details of a game. Fan fiction with a character based in the same universe and watching or being affected by the events surrounding the original characters is good, it expands that world beyond the edge of the film, printed page, scope of the original game.

All in all, personally, I would really hate for someone to take a character that I put my blood, sweat and tears into and used it as some kind of "capture the flag" prize, or a stolen treasure that is then devalued. Yes, it would make me feel angry, that someone was trying to ride my coattails just to get people to interact with them. Evil or Very Mad

Using different characters in the same setting however, is OK by me, and may even get me to take some time to get to know the character.

My personal opinion, YMMV.


added - and if you set your cookies to automatically log you in, you shouldn't run into the log out timer as much. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:17 pm
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weephun
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 908
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC

 		And Bungie's own Frankie weighs in:
Frankie wrote:
It's fake.


ADD:
And again:
Frankie wrote:
We got a lot of inquiries about www.ilovebees2.com and I would like to say for the record that it's a fake. Or at least that it has nothing to do with us. I mean for one thing, you have to figure that if we were doing a secret vial campaign, we wouldn't call it ilovebees, because you know, that wouldn't be terribly secret.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:24 pm
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