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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour - READ POST#1
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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mac_monkey
Decorated

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 250
BBuck wrote:
mac_monkey wrote:
How about just adding these characters to the current keyspace...

" " . , ! ? ' "

so 7 extra characters... which means 20,099,202 extra work units to do.

I'd personally rather search for these characters being randomly inserted in a key rather than being at the end. Although that said, it may be worth doing both, starting with them at the end as it's a smaller keyspace.

However, this I'm guessing would mess up work unit allocation, as they are given out based on the first 4 characters, not the last 4.

EDIT:Forgive me if my maths is wrong.


I think your maths is out. Adding 7 characters to the keyspace takes it from 218.34 trillion to 513.8 trillion (62^8 to 69^8 unfortunately).



Urm the number I stated was number of work units which==number of keys/14700000

Hope that helps
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:00 am
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BBuck
Decorated

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 184

 		Note to self: read more carefully. V sorry Embarassed

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:21 pm
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SteveC
Unfettered


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 381

 		Just my $0.02 on this...

The reason we are searching this restricted keyset is because we're assuming that this is some sort of "guessable" key. We're hoping it's using characters that would make up something recogniseabl to a human being.

NOW, in that case, we're never considering using a whole heap of characters, and we're not expecting them to be in any position.

My guesses are that we can prioritise certain characters, and even in certain positions, such as have been mentioned above.

Remember, we're not actually using real letters, we're using ascii translations of letters, numbers etc.

Hence, my feeling is that...

1/ A ., ? or ! to the end of the space... (about 6 days?)
2/ An apostrophe anywhere (just in case) (16 days)
3/ Quote marks around 6 letters (a few seconds Wink)
4/ Technicallity, add a null anywhere.... (16 days)...
5/ all of the above at once (???)

Then maybe roll out comma anywhere... & anywhere? finally commas anywhere and $ or £ at the start ( I already tried $200,000 and £100,000 Smile)...

All in all - logical intelligent brute force.. if it's simple brute force, we've no way of attacking it....
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...and no, I didn't reverse engineer or bruteforce anything to form this opinion.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:23 pm
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SteveC
Unfettered


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 381
BBuck wrote:

I'm not a programmer, but it looks like some very good ones have been working on this, and we're at or near optimal, so I think this is unlikely.


Actually, it's not a criticism because no-one has approached it, but the client is rather unoptimised.. Some "obvious" shortcuts are being taken, but on the whole, I'd say it could be going twice as fast given machine specific optimizations, or probably some more generic ones.

BBuck wrote:

i) Random key: If the key has been chosen randomly, then the chances of there being x occurences of non-alphanumeric characters from a keyspace of 72 are:


Just to re-iterate. If it's random, we're screwed because there's no reason to assume that it's using ASCII representations of 0-9, a-Z + punctuation in the first place.


BBuck wrote:

ii) Non-random key: if the key has been chosen deliberately (ie: F!v3(0w$ or someting similar), then I think it is extremely likely there will be more than one non-alphanumeric character. I've not a strong basis for this, just a feeling that if these characters are included, it's more natural to have more than one: F!VE(0WS compared to F!VEC0WS.


Yes, to be honest, l33t sp33k is the most worrying possibility, though it's possible to narrow it down in a priority based way too - especially as typically very few non-0-9, a-Z characters are used anyway...

Oh - and my list above omitted adding a space.. That's quite high in my list I think...
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...and no, I didn't reverse engineer or bruteforce anything to form this opinion.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:28 pm
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fretty
Decorated

Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 281
Location: South Yorkshire, England

 		I was looking on the distributed.net site and the cows appear to link to the depth of knowledge required for each document/book/website etc. The only document to have got the five cow status on the site is one about cracking DES. Could this be the cipher used?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:21 am
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SteveC
Unfettered


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 381

 		Hi fretty, have a read of the first post in this thread, and do a search for the title of the book. Thanks...
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...and no, I didn't reverse engineer or bruteforce anything to form this opinion.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:23 am
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Macavity
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 883
Location: UNSC Comm Relay Station Alpha, West Shokan, NY
fretty wrote:
I was looking on the distributed.net site and the cows appear to link to the depth of knowledge required for each document/book/website etc. The only document to have got the five cow status on the site is one about cracking DES. Could this be the cipher used?


Not likely, because the kloo from the hint line was RCCRYPT.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:34 am
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elPaulio
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 5

 		Hey,

Just a couple of things. I've downloaded the Labour13 program to try and do my bit to solving this little cracker Twisted Evil

But I keep getting "Congestion encountered adding client, waiting for retry."
Is there anything I've done wrong or do I just have to wait for it to eventually connect?

Also, when I was scratching the silver panel off of my card I was a bit over zealous Embarassed and scratched through the number and found a reflective silvery colour underneath!! This is my first silver card so I was wondering if they all do this or if someone was going to be brave enough to try scratching their whole card away to see if there is something hidden underneath?!?!?!

Anyway, hope we can crack this

Paul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:00 am
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themandotcom
Veteran


Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Syosset, New York, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

 		You just have to wait elPaulio, right now (around 10 min after you posted) I am having that same problem. Could be another power outage, or maybe something else...
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13th Labour!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:14 am
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poozleModerator
Entrenched

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1090
elPaulio wrote:
Hey,

Just a couple of things. I've downloaded the Labour13 program to try and do my bit to solving this little cracker Twisted Evil

But I keep getting "Congestion encountered adding client, waiting for retry."
Is there anything I've done wrong or do I just have to wait for it to eventually connect?

Also, when I was scratching the silver panel off of my card I was a bit over zealous Embarassed and scratched through the number and found a reflective silvery colour underneath!! This is my first silver card so I was wondering if they all do this or if someone was going to be brave enough to try scratching their whole card away to see if there is something hidden underneath?!?!?!

Anyway, hope we can crack this

Paul


If you've scratched off the whole code try emailing mind candy and letting them know what has happened.

I've heard reports of other silvers doing this and someone even peeled a whole silver card off (can't remember which, was a long time ago).

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:45 pm
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elPaulio
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 5

 		Mornin' all,

Has there been any update on when the Labour13 program will be able to connect?

I'm still getting the same error message about congestion Crying or Very sad
Left it running all of last night and came in this morning to lots of dots but no connection!!

Cheers

Paul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:41 am
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Bakers_12
Decorated


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Dartford

 		Could your firewall be stoping the conetion? it did with me when i first used the program
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:59 am
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Teebor
Boot


Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 67

 		Both mine seem to be working fine, check your firewall settings

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:25 am
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elPaulio
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 5

 		I have just checked with my IT department about our firewall and it seems that our firewall has port 9001 open.

Any other suggestions on how to get it working??

Paul

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:16 am
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Ringtail
Boot


Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 22

 		I find hitting it with a hammer very theraputic... it may not solve the problem but at least you feel less stressed at the end of it. Very Happy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:02 pm
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