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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Low-Volume Games
[hyp3r] /su run HELO_WORLD.cmd
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James Blond
Veteran


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 134

Here are my two cents...

Scyne wrote:
Actualy I would like to say that we all know that this experiment should be laid to rest.
So, we were all nothing more than guinea pigs?

Scyne wrote:
Hyp3r is over.... but the story is not.
What story? Sorry dude, but there really wasn't much of a story to begin with.

Scyne wrote:
Your tenacity has led to some fun experiances.
Haha. Yeah. Like when MMO Radio threatened to sue me? Good times, good times.

Scyne wrote:
The were a lot of ups and downs but in the end, it was worth it.
For you, maybe.

Scyne wrote:
The next lay3r will be even better than before.
I sure hope so. It can't get any worse.

Scyne wrote:
You see, we are not indie anymore.
If this game is any indication, the people who are sponsoring you are wasting their money.

Scyne wrote:
Join us soon for a special broadcast and please call into keymaker's phone to leave your final thoughts on the game.
I'll take a rain check.

Scyne wrote:
Thanks again for playing and we will see you in little over a month!
You won't be seeing me again, I can promise you that.

I'm glad that you have decided to tell us it's over, rather than leaving us hanging. This game looked promising when it was just starting out, but it all just went downhill from there.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:15 am
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

*sigh* Another casualty.

FWIW, being *indie* does not mean being *unprofessional*. And yes, I am insinuating that abandoning a game (and a dedicated player base), choosing to let it fizzle out due to [insert reason/excuse here] is totally and wholly unprofessional. Oh, and if the [insert reason/excuse here] contains the word 'experiment' I think I might just implode upon myself.

Can't wait until you guys aren't "indie" anymore, though. I know that the vast knowledge gained from the experiance you will undoubtedly gain in the month before you will supposedly launch another, um... game? will go along way to restoring your credibility in the online gaming community.

Shocked Confused Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:21 am
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James Blond
Veteran


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 134

jamesi wrote:
*sigh* Another casualty.

FWIW, being *indie* does not mean being *unprofessional*. And yes, I am insinuating that abandoning a game (and a dedicated player base), choosing to let it fizzle out due to [insert reason/excuse here] is totally and wholly unprofessional. Oh, and if the [insert reason/excuse here] contains the word 'experiment' I think I might just implode upon myself.

Can't wait until you guys aren't "indie" anymore, though. I know that the vast knowledge gained from the experiance you will undoubtedly gain in the month before you will supposedly launch another, um... game? will go along way to restoring your credibility in the online gaming community.

Shocked Confused Rolling Eyes
What's really frustrating for me is the fact that this PM doesn't seem to get it. Judging by his post, it sounds like he thinks it all went smoothly. As if he's in his own little fantasy world where we all just loved his game. Then to add insult to injury, he says he's going to run another game in a month.

Dude. Scyne. I don't think you get it. At this point in time, IMHO, you do not have what it takes to run an ARG. Please don't try to do another one on your own until you've had some more experience. Go over to the PM forums, and try to join a team. Read the logs from Imbri's PM chats. Read the archives of past games to see what worked, and what didn't.

Just, please, no matter what you do, don't try to run another ARG until you have a better idea of what you're doing.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:31 am
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audioslave
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 547
Location: Canada

I have to say, I agree with James, not to say that you shouldn't try again, just don't do it before you're 100% sure that it will go as smoothly as possible

And please, don't waste our time with an ARG that you know full well isn't perfected

But, I, unlike some other people here (not saying that you made the wrong choice, will have a go at your next game, I'm hoping that you learned from this one.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:48 pm
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Whalewashingdolphin
Decorated


Joined: 25 Aug 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Canada

Oh my gosh...I'm MIA for 1 1/2 months and the frickin' game is over Crying or Very sad Wink Well...I'd actually play the next one if there was one...this was pretty interesting to me, as long as there were more frequent updates (I'd rather a game run briskly for 2 weeks than slowly for 2 months).
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:28 pm
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audioslave
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 547
Location: Canada

Quote:
Justin says:
Hello Scyne
Scyne says:
hello
Justin says:
game crashed, eh?
Scyne says:
meh...
Justin says:
well, hyp3r did
Scyne says:
yeah
Scyne says:
I cant talk too much but shadowknight entertainment is no more and Thinking Man Studios Is nolonger in the arg bussiness.
Justin says:
ah, I see
Justin says:
so I suppose that's the reason behind the meltdown...
Scyne says:
The coments said made corprate pull the plug on future games
Justin says:
oh jeez...
Scyne says:
Now I'm exiled from ARGs
Scyne says:
yay
Justin says:
Ha. That's hilarious. (not the game ending or anything, that sucks) because I remember saying many times that trashing the games never helps
Justin says:
well, was I ever right
Justin says:
I liked you as a PM, to be honest
Scyne says:
Thank you
Justin says:
I thought the ARG had a great idea, a great idea to execute it and great characters, but the rest king of fell behind, i.e execution of the ideas
Justin says:
*kind
Scyne says:
I wish i could say more to the rest of the players but I cant post on argn....
Justin says:
do you want to? I could post a statement, if you wish
Scyne says:
Even then I can get into trouble
Justin says:
I see..
Justin says:
I'm curious as hell, why exactly was this company paying for this? again, don't tell me if you don't want
Scyne says:
This was done to build hype for Flying Labs Studio's Pirates of the burning sea
Justin says:
ah, that makes sense.
Justin says:
so what's with the lay3r thing
Scyne says:
that was to provide a game that i had total control of and info on who the dataknights are
Scyne says:
www.shadowknightentertainment.com
Scyne says:
If enough players showed intrest I might still be able to pull it off.... but seeing as Unfiction hates me.... I doubt it......
Justin says:
ok, UnFiction hates you why?
Justin says:
and, if you're looking for an alternative, may I suggest Immersion Unlimited?
Justin says:
the admins would cooperate with you, they're looking to get some more players to their site
Scyne says:
I could try... but as of sunday I dont make ARGs
Justin says:
Ok, well even if you don't do lay3r (it really might be for the best) do your own indie ARG
Scyne says:
yeah
Justin says:
I think you have potential for a good ARG, if you make sure you get your shit together. I think it would be better if you set out and did your own ARG
Scyne says:
yeah
Justin says:
maybe find some others to help you out
Scyne says:
Lay3r 2 was to do that.....
Justin says:
do what, exactly?
Justin says:
I'm a bit thick tonight, haven't slept well in days
Justin says:
oh, Lay3r was supposed to have more people helping you out?
Scyne says:
yep
Justin says:
....You did hyp3r alone?
Scyne says:
half staff
Scyne says:
core of 4 people
Justin says:
I see
Justin says:
Well I have to say, this "Shadow Night" company sounds like a bunch of amateurs
Scyne says:
Well we had limited funding
Justin says:
whoever was behind it all, obviously had some very good ideas (was that you?) but obviously the higher levels didn't execute properly, you did a good job PMing, but alot of things fell apart
Justin says:
it
Justin says:
it's not even that
Scyne says:
yet they wanted big
Justin says:
heh. ARGs arn't "big" with the best funding
Scyne says:
yeah
Scyne says:
just hard to do things and "Gather numbers"
Justin says:
I honestly don't understand why some companies do ARGs, Who is Benjamin Stove had 100 people activly playing, at the most. And it must have cost a fortune
Justin says:
They probably ended up losing more money than they made
Justin says:
that's why I like indie games, no pressure
Justin says:
no need to "go bigger"

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:06 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Scyne says:
The coments said made corprate pull the plug on future games
Justin says:
oh jeez...
Scyne says:
Now I'm exiled from ARGs
Scyne says:
yay
Justin says:
Ha. That's hilarious. (not the game ending or anything, that sucks) because I remember saying many times that trashing the games never helps
Justin says:
well, was I ever right


Wow. Just, wow. I guess we had better stop talking smack about ARGs, folks, because if we allow ourselves to speak freely about the quality of games on an out-of-game forum like this one, the game genre will fold in among itself and peopel will be, ahem, exiled. Rolling Eyes

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Scyne says:
I wish i could say more to the rest of the players but I cant post on argn....


No one can post on ARGN except for the staff (and, in some cases, contributing writers) of ARGN. Unless he meant the ARGN forums, which have been closed for a long time. Unless he meant here at UF, which simply isn't the case. Rolling Eyes

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Scyne says:
If enough players showed intrest I might still be able to pull it off.... but seeing as Unfiction hates me.... I doubt it......


Damn you (us?), Unfiction! Damn you to hell! Seriously, though, where does this idea come from that UF arbitrarily "hates" certain individuals? Or that UF is an entity in itself - a living, breathing, hating organism with great vengeance and furious anger? Rolling Eyes

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Justin says:
heh. ARGs arn't "big" with the best funding


I completely disagree, and maybe this is more of a META issue anyway. But with $9.95/yr hosting plans and Skype and all of the other free/low-cost resources out there for dedicated, forward-thinking PM teams to have at their disposal, there is no reason a "big" ARG can't be constructed and implemented without major funding. Orbital Colony, anyone?

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Justin says:
I honestly don't understand why some companies do ARGs, Who is Benjamin Stove had 100 people activly playing, at the most. And it must have cost a fortune


Where are you getting these numbers? Do you have access to the access logs and statistical data from the servers upon which the game sites were hosted? Have you talked with the people behind the WIBS game? Or are you making an assumption based on the number of people who were "actively playing" the game on various message boards? Lest we forget that the lurker:active player ratio is still a major factor in ARG audience.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:55 am
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

jamesi wrote:
Damn you (us?), Unfiction! Damn you to hell! Seriously, though, where does this idea come from that UF arbitrarily "hates" certain individuals? Or that UF is an entity in itself - a living, breathing, hating organism with great vengeance and furious anger? Rolling Eyes


It's NOT!? Shocked So here all this time I've been sacrificing gummy bears to it to turn away its wrath, and all my efforts have been in vain? Oh woe.

jamesi wrote:
audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Justin says:
I honestly don't understand why some companies do ARGs, Who is Benjamin Stove had 100 people activly playing, at the most. And it must have cost a fortune


Where are you getting these numbers? Do you have access to the access logs and statistical data from the servers upon which the game sites were hosted? Have you talked with the people behind the WIBS game? Or are you making an assumption based on the number of people who were "actively playing" the game on various message boards? Lest we forget that the lurker:active player ratio is still a major factor in ARG audience.


By my count, using the memberlist of the WIBS forum, there were 543 people actively posting on the WIBS forum. The lurker-visible player ratio, IIRC, is estimated at 10:1, and that, as I understand it, is more for grassroots games than for corporate ones, in which the gap is likely to be even larger. And I assume that "lurkers" means people who are actively following the game, rather than people who visit the site once. But even using those figures, that puts the number of people actively following the game somewhere around 5,000.

So I'm curious as to where the "100 players" figure came from.

ETA:

audioslave wrote:
Quote:
Justin says:
I honestly don't understand why some companies do ARGs, Who is Benjamin Stove had 100 people activly playing, at the most. And it must have cost a fortune


There's an extensive discussion here about that. Basically, not only are ARGs a more creative form of marketing that draws the audience to the company, rather than attempting to force the advertising upon them, they're also far more cost-effective than traditional means of advertising. Even when they're done by the "expensive" ARG companies.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:22 am
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audioslave
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 547
Location: Canada

Rolling Eyes it's always you two.... (For the love of my sanity don't do that little quotey thing where you quote this line, give a sarcastic reaction and then do the same thing, 5 or 6 times, wait till I acctually give an opinion, like on the next line...)

Remember, alot of the things I said were caused by lack of sleep, or they were off the cuff remarks, I had no intention of post that chat, scyne never asked me to, I decided that you guys might want to read it after I finished the chat.

As for the 100 players in WIBS: I mean 100 active players (i.e more than 10 posts, fyi, there's a little over 100 players who have posted at least 10 times on the WIBS forum), not "Post a few reactions and lurk for the rest" players, the point I was trying to make was that if they're trying to influence players, chances are they're going to influence the most active players, rather than the people that arn't activly participating in puzzles and the whole shin dig. Not to say that they don't influence any lurkers, but I'd say that they'd influence signifgantly less. Can I prove any of this, or the cost that they put out? No. It's an opinon.

And I'm not going to "discuss" the whole "Trashing the games" subject, I've "discussed" it enough when RI ended. You people hound me! Cool
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:36 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

audioslave wrote:
As for the 100 players in WIBS: I mean 100 active players (i.e more than 10 posts, fyi, there's a little over 100 players who have posted at least 10 times on the WIBS forum), not "Post a few reactions and lurk for the rest" players,...

I had to go back to the forums to check, but amazingly i DID post more than 10 times -- a total of 17 posts to be exact. Whew! I wasn't a lurker!

I *lived* in the IRC #benjaminstove and was completely caught up in the game, but you couldn't see it from the forums. Half the time, i was solving puzzles and handing off the solution for someone ELSE to post for me. Most of my posts were made near the last week of the game -- yet i was NOT lurking up until then. Seriously.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:03 pm
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chumlee
Boot


Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 16

Two Things

Quote:
Haha. Yeah. Like when MMO Radio threatened to sue me? Good times, good times.


Damn that was funny, James Blond.

And audioslave, thanks for sharing that log. I only lurked, but it still took time so it's good to know something about what happened.

- Chumlee

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:16 pm
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audioslave
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 547
Location: Canada

Re: Two Things

chumlee wrote:
Quote:
Haha. Yeah. Like when MMO Radio threatened to sue me? Good times, good times.


Damn that was funny, James Blond.

And audioslave, thanks for sharing that log. I only lurked, but it still took time so it's good to know something about what happened.

- Chumlee


Well you're welcome! *shoots dirty looks at Jamesi and cather*
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 7:49 pm
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Illusionist
Boot

Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 21

Shocked I forgot about this for a long while, and only 1 ingame convo!
Cursing AND it's gone already!
Crying or Very sad O fair Hyp3rn3xus, we will mourn you so!
I shall never forget you, for you are my first arg!

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:12 pm
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Nola
Unfettered


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 675

Quote:

Scyne says:
This was done to build hype for Flying Labs Studio's Pirates of the burning sea


Ha! Back in page 5 I spec'd the following:

Quote:
Jason posted his thread in a bulletin board dedicated to the Beta version of "Pirates of the Burning Sea", a MMORPG currently in development. If he made that post "in character", then we could speculate that more info about Trent, Keith or the document may be found in that forum. If he posted it "out of game", then it is a slip up that points to this being a viral campaign for Pirates of the Burning Sea.


Too bad no one will ever notice my genious...

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:16 am
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