unforum

[Guin]

Just a few thoughts.

Okay these words - CORE and REFRAME - are really bugging me so I went back to basics.

The CORE to any solitaire is the keystream value generation algorithm

this is the process by which we encrypt or decrypt and we need one keystream value per letter in the message. - this is dependant primarily on the deck order - or a pass key that orders the deck.

Based on the fact the message was whispered I am certainly thinking its a pass phrase. If the cards fall into the wrong hands and its in the text then anyone could solve it with a bit of work. as stated before the heat characters can be found by accident - which if I recall correctly actually happened when we got this card.

Another thing we are forgetting (well I had as I madly tried to solve this card) - is that when you create a Solitaire you always pad out (or reframe?!?) the text to be 5 letter blocks - so the 108 breaks this rule - it would need to be a value of 5 - so possibly 105 or lower possibly even higher. Suggesting we have some extra text to remove - or add - i am not sure at this point in time!

For example - If the original text was I AM IS LOSING SLEEP OVER THIS CARD we would make it into IAMLO SINGS LEEPO VERTH ISCAR DXXXX and the resulting code using a standard keyed deck would be NDPVR YFPPW HMORQ ZTVGW DDEOF BKAVD - I would have hope that the extra text had been left in the solitaire rather than it being removed once encrypted. Although dont quote me on this as we have seen oddities with some of the other cards in all waves (Broadside, Earths Destiny, Ciphers - to name but a few!)

I think the "fresh eyes" is, as suggested, a go back to basics call. We are overcomplicating this and equally missing something.

And as also stated I agree about the text box - its too big to be anything like a 1 word or small sentance. This is something of a larger quantity and I too will eat my card if it isnt (so your not on your own ManleyM - we could hold an event !)

I htink the key is in the whispered message. The key is the core of the puzzle and there is certainly a reframe needed if this is a solitaire.

[poozle]

[Guin]

[poozle]

[Lilian]

cos i'm crap with cryptololgy i've been working in other directions and hve come across this to which one of you boffins might like a look

[e_nygma]

[xnera]

[manleym]

Not sure if this has been touched upon but i went back to basics earlier and done some searching on the web, if it has please feel free to trout away,

Note 1) There is quite a few double letters which could mean one of two things

i) It could be the end of one word and the start of another: ie SaM MusT Think
ii) I ShaLL Go WiLLingly

Note 2) There was a website which noted that using two ciphers within one, which makes it more easy to crack, so maybe we are over-complicating.

Thats all i have come up with at the moment for now.

[BBuck]

Padding out the last few letters with X's to make five letter groups may be standard, but for this puzzle, part of it is about identifying the cipher text. If the letters had concluded LULXX FHURG IFULP, then it's likely the heat-sensitive letters/reduced ciphertext would have been spotted straight away.

That said, the LUL FHURG... should have stood out as well. So, erm, yes.

This card is now pissing me off. I relish a challenge, but in this case, I feel that many viable, and several extremely clever, ways to the solution have been tried, but aren't correct. I am getting worried that when we eventually find out the answer, whether through a moment of genius or luck from a solver, or a very clear hint from MC, we will feel cheated, and that the puzzle is not very complicated/well-written. As Guin said above, not all the puzzles that have resisted attack for a while have turned out to be perfectly formed.

[justdig]

[brokasaphasia]

[BBuck]

[Guin]

The only thing having gone back to the start that I really can conclude is that the meassge "If entopy wins outward looks should leave you cold" is truely genius.

God I do love this card - regardless of all the pain it has (and will continue) to give me.

Ive tried a variety of opposites to entropy tonight - no luck!!!

[ambskunk]

I hope that this spreadsheet will help some people. I basically got sick of typing in pack orders etc into webpages/DOS executables and also forgetting what I had tried.

Initially I set up a basic Excel file to send keys to the C++ version of the Schneier program but in the end bit the bullet and encoded the program into VBA.

The program allows encrypt/decrypt using passphrase/deck order and can use either the VBA code, the C++ code or both (for verification). It also logs all attempts made so you can keep track.

Hopefully the spreadsheet is fairly easy to use, you can set the order of the suits using the drop down boxes and the placement of the Jokers, but otherwise you can 'manually' set the pack. If changing the deck order around hit the 'Set Pack' button before running the code.

It does not have the best error handling so may fall over occassionally.

You can look at the code in the VB editor and if you have any suggestions on improvements, let me know.

Edit: Oh yeah, it was written in Excel 2003 but should work in other versions of Excel. Dunno about Mac - the C++ program won't work for Mac. Make sure you have Macros enabled in your security settings.

[Guin]