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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] #243 Silver - Shuffled Part 2 (Read 1st Post!)
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UKver2.0
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Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
manleym wrote:
If entropy wins
Outward looks should
leave you cold

which would leave the syllable's as

4 - 7 - 6
You'll have to explain that one...
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Andrea: Paint a little X on the ground with spray paint..
Naomi: and then you’d try to anagram 'shovels'

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:30 am
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manleym
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Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: Norwich UK
UKver2.0 wrote:
manleym wrote:
If entropy wins
Outward looks should
leave you cold

which would leave the syllable's as

4 - 7 - 6
You'll have to explain that one...


right explanation.....

What is Haiku?
Haiku is one of the most important form of traditional Japanese poetry. Haiku is, today, a 17-syllable verse form consisting of three metrical units of 5, 7, and 5 syllables.

In English this is the same using vowels

e.g. a unit of spoken language larger than a phoneme; "the word `pocket' has two syllables"(two vowels)

So in my earlier post

If entropy wins = 4
Outward looks should = 7
Leave you cold = 6

Total = 17 Vowels (or 17-syllable verse)

Hope it has cleared up some what Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:05 am
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doublecross
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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 		ManleyM, syllables aren't the same as vowels in English, although they are more or less the same as vowel *sounds*. e.g. 'leave' in the last line has three vowels, but only one syllable. But who knows, maybe in Perplex City they do count vowels, as there are indeed 17, the required number in haiku. I prefer the 'missing final line of a haiku' theory, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:16 am
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manleym
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Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Norwich UK
doublecross wrote:
ManleyM, syllables aren't the same as vowels in English, although they are more or less the same as vowel *sounds*. e.g. 'leave' in the last line has three vowels, but only one syllable. But who knows, maybe in Perplex City they do count vowels, as there are indeed 17, the required number in haiku. I prefer the 'missing final line of a haiku' theory, though.


Thanks for putting me right Confused , I have alot in my head at the moment (going to have to relax tonight and clear my head),

Thinking was in a perplex view (any idea though hey Very Happy )
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:26 am
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RedZed333
Boot


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Sunderland
Sh1ft wrote:
[The haiku angle is interesting. Finishing it is a challenge.

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
heat death is final?

or how about:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Mostly Frustrated

or:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Ice cubes cool drinks well

maybe:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Randomizing bits

perhaps:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Deck is shuffled, yo

and:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Introspection sucks

what if:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Garnet is smarter

could it be:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
Devious puzzle

Argh.

(This thread has pretty much stagnated. Post up your best haiku that completes:
If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold)

'
Seeing as there are 43 letters in 'If entropy...etc, perhaps there are 11 letters in the final part of the Haiku, to bring it up to 54.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:38 pm
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RedZed333
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Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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Location: Sunderland
manleym wrote:
What is Haiku?
Haiku is one of the most important form of traditional Japanese poetry. Haiku is, today, a 17-syllable verse form consisting of three metrical units of 5, 7, and 5 syllables.


A haiku also usually has a 'KIGO', a seaonal type word.

Interestingly, one of the '500 essential 'Winter Kigo's' is 'Blowfish'!

Or don't we want to go down that road...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:30 pm
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PerplexHero
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
RedZed333 wrote:
A haiku also usually has a 'KIGO', a seaonal type word.

Interestingly, one of the '500 essential 'Winter Kigo's' is 'Blowfish'!

Or don't we want to go down that road...


Fortune favors the bold:

If entropy wins
Outward looks should leave you cold
This puzzle blowfish.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:07 pm
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PerplexHero
Boot


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 30

 		My musings
Okay, I've read most of the 70 pages of this thread and don't think this has been discussed before in depth. Since all I hear are the squishy sounds of heads hitting the wall, I thought I'd propose something to take us off in an entirely new direction.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I do think that this card is about a Solitaire cipher. The clues are just too strong there. I don't, however, think this is Solitaire based on a standard deck of playing cards--I think it is based on a Tarot deck. Consider:

  1. The event takes place in the Five of Cups bar, a Tarot card meaning, ironically enough, Disappointment.
  2. The card never says the cards are standard playing cards.
  3. He takes the card and "spreads them out on the table looking for signs (or marks)". This strongly suggests a Tarot spread to me.
  4. The Sentinel's mention of Shuffled's "infernal logic" could reference Tarot, whose association with the occult often earns it an "infernal" connotation.
  5. The whole point of the deck of cards in Solitaire is to generate a keystream. Each card gives you a number from 1-52, and you take that number, modulo 26 (for the size of the alphabet) to generate the keystream. After that, you no longer need the deck, because you "add" the keystream to the text you're trying to encode, or "subtract" it to decrypt. There's no reason in the world you couldn't use a Tarot deck (cards numbered 1-78 ) and modulo by 26 to get your keystream.

I think the references to poker and the picture of the card deck are red herrings to throw us off-track. It would not be the first time the picture on the card had absolutely nothing to do with the puzzle (except perhaps to infer the Solitaire cipher).

So, assuming that the deck is a Tarot-based deck, the question is really two-fold: how do you assign numbers to each card and how do you order the deck.

For ordering the deck, the two possibilities are:

  1. The order of the deck when it comes out of the packaging.
  2. Some "standard" numbering system for Tarot cards

The problem with the first item is, the order depends on what deck. The problem for the 2nd is, there is no "standard" ordering. Each suit (Wands/Staves, Disks/Pentacles, Cups, Swords) correspond to the standard playing card suits (Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Swords), so you could use the standard Bridge ordering for the minor arcana (the 4 court cards are a little fuzzy though) and use the numbers on the major arcana (0 for the Fool, I-XXI for the others) to sort those 22 cards. But it's a little tricky.

This is where I started to realize I needed to know which Tarot deck. The two most prevalent decks are the Rider-Waite deck and the Thoth deck.

Then I thought about the phrase "If entropy wins, outward looks should leave you cold." THOTH = T+HOT+H. The symbol for thermodynamic entropy is S Th . Thermodynamic entropy applied to something resulting in HOT is COLD. Coincidence? So... I think it's the Thoth deck.

Buying a pristine Thoth deck reveals a couple things:
  1. Order of the deck:Ordo Templi Orientis;Star;1-10 Princess,Prince,Queen,Knight Cups;Swords;Disks;Wands;0 (Fool);XXI – I
  2. The pamphlet inside the book actually numbers the cards so we could use this as our identity. Order: 0;I – XXI;1-10, Knight, Queen, Prince, Princess Wands;Cups;Swords;Disks
  3. The deck includes two extra cards: an info card on Aleister Crowley's organization Ordo Templi Orientis and a big six-pointed star that is A.C.'s personal seal.

If the one star that was "added" was to the text card, you have two "jokers" with stars on them. Seems great so far.

Only trick... I'm stuck. I can't decode anything, so I must be missing something. I've tried both with and without the major arcana, and I've tried numerous orderings to the deck. I've also tried treating the Fool and the 5 of Cups as the jokers. No avail.And so I'm throwing this out there for ideas to you all.


Any help?
-PerplexHero

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:06 pm
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Ringtail
Boot


Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 22

 		I love the possibility of that idea Hero! Smile

I actually have that very deck sitting on my desk so this will give me a lot of fun tonight, who needs sleep anyway? ^^

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:36 pm
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Rand0m
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 271
Location: London
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
If it's the Crowley deck, I don't want to know - those cards give me the wiggins Shocked

I've got the Rider-Waite here, along with half a dozen others - I'll see what I can think of with them.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:35 pm
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crovax1234
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 46

 		Perplex -

Very creative idea. Never would have thought of it myself. However, there's one thing that points to it basically needing to be playing cards.

If you look at the card, the message itself is written on the pack (Which, as has been beaten into the ground, is a deck of Motor brand playing cards.) If you go on to claim that this pack isn't the pack he received, you have no code to decipher, and thus, no puzzle, seeing as he never mentions any other code. (Besides, of course, the infamous utterance.)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:09 pm
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PerplexHero
Boot


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 30
crovax1234 wrote:
If you look at the card, the message itself is written on the pack (Which, as has been beaten into the ground, is a deck of Motor brand playing cards.) If you go on to claim that this pack isn't the pack he received, you have no code to decipher, and thus, no puzzle, seeing as he never mentions any other code. (Besides, of course, the infamous utterance.)


Good point, although there is still no indication that the cards contained in the pack are a standard deck.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:26 pm
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aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		Nor would it be the first sideways leap we've seen in puzzle architecture from PXC. Like PerplexHero, I think it's worth exploring as it requires only a small leap from where we started.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:51 pm
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fretty
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Location: South Yorkshire, England

 		I think the Tarot idea colud be a good one but garnet says that the only strange thing is the star on the joker, wouldn't garnet have found the whole thing strange if he opened a standard pack of playing cards to find a deck of tarot cards?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:13 am
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manleym
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Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Norwich UK
fretty wrote:
I think the Tarot idea colud be a good one but garnet says that the only strange thing is the star on the joker, wouldn't garnet have found the whole thing strange if he opened a standard pack of playing cards to find a deck of tarot cards?


I know this maybe trout worthy but i thought i would put a few ideas through on the jokers

1) Could mean the start of the deck order
2) Could mean to remove that joker or both of them
3) The Jokers could be put in the middle to act as a space or line break

Im sure there is more ideas that could be thought of

If I have some spare time today im going to try one of my ideas i thought of last night when I was going Bang Head

Im yet to have my Coffee this morning
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http://www.manleym.co.uk/shop

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:27 am
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