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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] #243 Silver - Shuffled Part 2 (Read 1st Post!)
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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RandomLil
Kilroy

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

 		Just had to share. Playing around with anagramming the whispered text and got ...

LOOK CLOSELY, YOU REVEAL PASSWORD, FIND OUT WHODUNIT! Laughing

On a less frivolous note - I have found other playing card based ciphers which might fit the bill.

The ARCFOUR (Alleged RC4) algorithm uses a 10 character random string appended to the passphrase. This is known as the Initialisation Vector (IV) or 'salt' and is sent along with the encrypted message as the first 10 characters. See www.heptasean.de/systeme/RC4-52.pdf

Using a deck with A and B jokers the sender uses the algorithm with the passphrase plus the salt to key the deck. Once keyed, the jokers are put back to the top of the deck and the algorithm is used again to generate the keystream (which is a shift added to the message characters) to give the encryption.

The person receiving the encrypted message drops the first ten characters (the salt) and uses them with the keyphrase they already share with the sender to generate the keyed deck. The algorithm is used as before to generate the same keystream but this time subtracting the shift to decrypt the message.

Perhaps the EODMF XRUTH is the salt with 'If entropy wins ...' as the passphrase. Then a second encryption with PLUFI GRUHF as the salt running in the other direction.

Also Ciphersaber uses the 10 character salt but has a different algorithm.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1394/ciphersaber.html

I have tried both the above to get some sense out of the letters but no luck so far. I'm not a programmer tho' so am doing it by hand - and with a streaming cipher one slip and it's curtains for the lot!!

Can anyone write a prog to do this?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:17 pm
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Joe_the_OOF
Guest


 		ARCFOUR andCihpersaber
RandomLil wrote:
Just had to share. Playing around with anagramming the whispered text and got ...

LOOK CLOSELY, YOU REVEAL PASSWORD, FIND OUT WHODUNIT! Laughing

On a less frivolous note - I have found other playing card based ciphers which might fit the bill.

The ARCFOUR (Alleged RC4) algorithm uses a 10 character random string appended to the passphrase. This is known as the Initialisation Vector (IV) or 'salt' and is sent along with the encrypted message as the first 10 characters. See www.heptasean.de/systeme/RC4-52.pdf

Using a deck with A and B jokers the sender uses the algorithm with the passphrase plus the salt to key the deck. Once keyed, the jokers are put back to the top of the deck and the algorithm is used again to generate the keystream (which is a shift added to the message characters) to give the encryption.

The person receiving the encrypted message drops the first ten characters (the salt) and uses them with the keyphrase they already share with the sender to generate the keyed deck. The algorithm is used as before to generate the same keystream but this time subtracting the shift to decrypt the message.

Perhaps the EODMF XRUTH is the salt with 'If entropy wins ...' as the passphrase. Then a second encryption with PLUFI GRUHF as the salt running in the other direction.

Also Ciphersaber uses the 10 character salt but has a different algorithm.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1394/ciphersaber.html

I have tried both the above to get some sense out of the letters but no luck so far. I'm not a programmer tho' so am doing it by hand - and with a streaming cipher one slip and it's curtains for the lot!!

Can anyone write a prog to do this?


I don't understand your question. The source code for ARCFOUR is
in the .pdf file you cite. If you need source for ciphersaber,
Google for

ciphersaber C implementation

(Use, for example java or perl instead of C if you don't like C) and you
can get all the source you want.

If you would like a C compiler you can use, Google for MINGW.

If you only want to try one or two cases, you can just put the
password and salt directly into the code.

Hope this helps.

Joe

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:03 am
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Joe_the_OOF
Guest


 		shuffled
Possible clue from Von's hint???
Would any of you who have this card care to express an opinion
on whether the writer of Von's hint is aware that normally, a code is
not a cipher and a cipher is not a code? The hint reads in part
"As for the code..." Maybe this is hinting that the answer (whatever it is)
is to be found be an anagram of the plain text, or by somehow twisting
the text itself around. (This would suppose that the writing that everyone
has been treating as ciphertext is just gibberish, but might be the "leap of
intuition that MC has babbled about).

Sorry, but I'm not nearly good enough to make a guess as to what the
answer might be.

Maybe some MC customer might see whether they will indicate
wheter they are aware of the difference between codes and ciphers.

Joe

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:44 am
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THESB
Boot

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 17

 		Has anyone explored the possibility that this might be a doubly encrypted message, as in "mental poker" Could it be possible that the first set of the 10 disappearing numbers is the first "key" and the 10 at the end, the second?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:00 pm
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
THESB wrote:
Has anyone explored the possibility that this might be a doubly encrypted message, as in "mental poker" Could it be possible that the first set of the 10 disappearing numbers is the first "key" and the 10 at the end, the second?


It had been suggested here, but I cannot say how much it was followed-up on. I remember running the ideas of the time through with each of the ten letters as the key, but I have not tried double decryption with any of the recent ideas. For the past six months or so I've been focusing on ideas that remove the 20 disappearing letters altogether.

I suppose I could take my shortlist of passphrases and combine them up for some double decryptions. Won't be much to edit my PERL script to do that. Thanks for the idea. It will be a pleasant break from my current attempts.
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Naomi: We did joke that we’d end up have to go round to your houses with shovels, drive you to the location and tell you to dig.
Andrea: Paint a little X on the ground with spray paint..
Naomi: and then you’d try to anagram 'shovels'

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:24 pm
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
donstobbart wrote:
Thank you very much UKver2.0, for that in depth working out of the puzzle that we Brits in our ignorance cannot do. But let me just ask this. Have you done it?

Don


yes

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:39 pm
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MikeyjModerator
Unfictologist


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 1847
Location: London

 		Nice! Congratulations UKver2.0! Great that one of the Big Silvers has finally fallen

There's a little more in the way of hintage at the solve over at Perplexorum here

Where's the fanfare emoticon when you need one?
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Irrelevant musings.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:55 am
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Sophiecat
Decorated

Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 171
Location: North East UK
UKver2.0 wrote:
donstobbart wrote:
Thank you very much UKver2.0, for that in depth working out of the puzzle that we Brits in our ignorance cannot do. But let me just ask this. Have you done it?

Don


yes


Congratulations, can you give the rest of us mere mortals a clue then?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:58 am
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
Sophiecat wrote:
UKver2.0 wrote:
donstobbart wrote:
Thank you very much UKver2.0, for that in depth working out of the puzzle that we Brits in our ignorance cannot do. But let me just ask this. Have you done it?

Don


yes


Congratulations, can you give the rest of us mere mortals a clue then?


I only posted this "yes" here because I've wanted to do that for a very very long time. I was just being a brat. Sorry. I've given some information on the solve here.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:16 am
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kie_yeo
Veteran


Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Romford, Essex

 		Gotta say I'm very VERY impressed with that. The way these 4 cards have dragged on I really wasn't expecting anybody to get anywhere. Maybe thats a tad pessimistic, but it does provide new motivation for the remaining 3.

I'm gonna bite my tongue and not ask for more clues just yet lol.

Congrats UKver2.0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:49 am
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myfModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 917
Location: Hiding from squirrels

 		Wow! I'm not going to pretend I have even the slightest idea of how you did it, but may I present you with some brownie by way of congratulations? Brownie Brownie Brownie Brownie Brownie Brownie Brownie Brownie Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:33 am
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poozleModerator
Entrenched

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1090

 		Congrats UKVer2.0, thought it would never fall.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:45 pm
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sloth007
Greenhorn


Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
UKver2.0 wrote:
donstobbart wrote:
Thank you very much UKver2.0, for that in depth working out of the puzzle that we Brits in our ignorance cannot do. But let me just ask this. Have you done it?

Don


yes


Well Done UKver2.0.

I always held on to the hope that it would be you who cracked this one.
Congratulations.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:50 pm
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
sloth007 wrote:

Well Done UKver2.0.

I always held on to the hope that it would be you who cracked this one.
Congratulations.


Thanks. For a long time I was running on the steam of having something to prove. I was pretty set on trying to be the first. Funny, it was only recently that I let those feelings go. Maybe this was my reward.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:43 pm
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sixsidedsquare
Unfettered

Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 409
Location: 60E

 		Wow, huge congrats UKver2.0m knew it would fall some day. As for stuff relating to what you have said about the solve:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I always felt it would be a solitaire on the letters with the outside ones removed and the keyword being like a cryptic crossword solution to the entropy quote. It was just always the numerous other coincidences that pulled me in other directions and ultimately made me drop really working on it.

The fact the keyword isn't just a single word is the tricksy part. Before it felt so futile trying multiple decode methods on every idea, not even knowing if any of them even had a chance of yielding the correct answer, but now knowing that with the right phrase I'll actually get the right result, I'll have to try nutting it out.

Course, I never really was any good with cryptic crosswords....


PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:25 am
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