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[Ramazel]

[UPDATE] Cognivia.com 27-Mar-06 Ceretin feature

[cassandra]

No, this is a new article.

I'd like to know how and why the PCAG is involved in clinical trials testing for experimental pharmaceuticals. I understand the partnership to prevent illicit Ceretin use in competition, but I'm not sure how they legally can assist Cognivia in Ceretin-6 Phase 1 testing on humans, other than, perhaps, sample information.

I can easily see this as a completely unethical investigative trial gone horribly wrong, and covered up, complete with anti-"black market" propaganda to ensure continuing profit and monopoly

Excess copper + stimulants (esp. amphetamine-type) > less dopamine; contribute to oxidative stress > neurologic toxicity, atherosclerosis (oddly enough, even though low amounts of copper itself can protect the heart), neurogenerative disease (see Alzheimer's, Parkinson's). If anyone knew Cymbalisty was being given Ceretin-6, and wanted to kill him, they could introduce copper into his diet in other ways (or perhaps excess MSG into already copper-infused tofu noodles/soy sauce - glutamate excess could also be a factor). Or Cymbalisty could have shown evidence of increasing tolerance/side effects, neuronal degeneration/apoptosis, and Cognivia couldn't have that evidence on the record.

I mean, if the man doesn't let his office be cleaned and has no friends to come visit him at home, why would he want apartment cleaners? I suspect they're part of Cognivia who come every week to monitor his status/keep him supplied

[josiah]

It doesn't seem that hard to believe that the PCAG would be involved in clinicial trials for a drug that is meant to prove cognitive abilities - they are probably the best qualified for two reasons - their main purpose being to test peoples cognitive abilities; and their extensive testing for cognitive enhancing compounds.

I think the existence of this testing information would help us greatly with determining what happened to Cymbalisty, and as we have much better links with the PCAG than we do with Cognivia, I think this information is pointing us in the direction we have to attack from

[cassandra]

Who are the subjects, though, and who specifically is conducting the research? Competitors in the PCAG are strictly forbidden to ingest Ceretin or similar cognitive-enhancing compounds. I assumed that the current PCAG biodata would be limited to players only...(although the biodata is controlled by Cognivia - I'm still not sure how the PCAG helped in developing Ceretin-6..)

The PCAG, as an organization, is basically bought and paid for by Cognivia, anyway. Cognivia "sponsors" the PCAG, and provides it with all of its funding, technology, prize money and trophies, etc. For either Cognivia alone or in conjunction with the PCAG to conduct clinical trials on their own drugs without ethical oversight is scandalous. (Though Special Projects seem to be monitored, at least.)

[duckiemonster]

I'm not going to look too hard for a medically-sound explaination, because I'm not sure that there is one... but I'll agree that he could indeed have been testing a new version of ceretin. This would explain the forensic computers not having it on record yet.

[kizandtango]

Its just SPEC here, but if Cognivia basicly "own" the PCAG's, then could the whole PCAG's be a front for testing UN-willing people with new versions of ceretin? Maybe giving half the competitors the new Ceretin without them knowing, and half an older version, and then noting the results based on the scores from the PCAG's? Might be jumping the gun a bit here, but what if Cognivia have more to do with this than we currently realise? The idea of Issac testing Version 5 seems like a very good theory. In which case, could it have gone like this?

Issac Tests Ceretin V5 willingly or un-willingly
Test goes wrong and Liquifies his brain
Cognivia wade in,clean up any evidence of him using Version 5, and stick some black market Ceretin in to throw everyone off the scent (After all,they could easily make their own Black market ceretin couldnt they)

Just alot of Spec there i guess, but it all sounds so plausable to me....

[ShaolinBachelor]

The copper reference does seem too significant to ignore (unless it's a red metal herring). If Cymbalisty was taking Ceretin 5/6 then he was either an official tester or it was being given to him with/out his knowledge. It is 'counterbalanced with vitamin compounds'. So this new formula could maybe have a negative biochemical impact on the body without extra minerals to sustain organs or aid absorption of the compound. Sounds volatile.

The odd thing is this business of his clean room. Someone wanted to eradicate the trace of their presence in the room where he died. If it was just slow poison there'd surely be no need for this. There must have have been a catalyst - something delivered to him to catalyse a reaction with the stuff he'd been taking. Something that knocked out the palliative vitamins?

[sackofpotatoes]

I think you might be on to something kiz... I've always had a bad feeling about Cognivia personally, and I think the fact that the new Ceretin contains "copper compounds" just can't be a coincidence with the copper found in Isaac's body.

A few questions come to mind thinking about the company...

Do we have any leads on gaining access to Cognivia documents?

Was the "Earth CGW advert" mentioned on the Trials & Testing page ever found?

Could we use our knowledge of Ascendency Point to help us out?

[ShaolinBachelor]

Hey Mr Potatoes, you can catch up with the CGW puzzle in the /Puzzles bit of this forum..

[Belogroak]

To throw a slightly different slant on this, could someone at the PCAG or the academy know of complications with Ceretin-6 (as the article kind of implies there has been), Got hold of some and then switched it with Cymbalisty's supply?

This would fit the theory he was murdered and explain the copper in the autopsy.

Bel

[Scott]

[spugmeistress]

[duckiemonster]

Regardless, he'd have had to have been taking it for a very long time to build up to a level where you can actually see the metal.

[jojojojo]

I really think that the key to this is the "testing materials" that we will get from Cognivia, following the CGW puzzle. It just seems too convienient and well timed that we get this puzzle while investigating the murder.

*jojojojo waits for her inbox to ping...

EDIT: Okay, we don't know if he was actually murdered. We're investigating his death.

[Small Geezer]

Just another point that no one has mentioned that may lead us further down the 'he was testing the new drug' route. Isaac was a habitual user of Ceretin, so was likely to have built some resistance to the drug thereby needing more for the same effect. What better candidate to trial the new product and see if is more effective than someone that *knows* how he normally feels on it and someone that if they were to exhibit increased brain function above and beyond the existing drug would prove without a doubt that the new drug was indeed more effective.