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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Black Puzzle Cards
[hex set] #202 - Mother Tongue
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Sirichj
Guest


Has anyonew tried the IPA or International Phonetic Alphabet?

It says this is the notational standard for all spoken languages. Did a lot of reading about the origin of languages and it's hard to tell how they started as there are so many theories, many of the countries on the card and their languages are not linked, some are so I'm finding it hard to see how their languages are linked when they do not derive from the same root unless it's something like hieroglyphics which I assume has already been tried.

Japanese seems to originate from the Ainu people, English is a Germanic language of the Indo-European family, Portuguese is a romance language originating from Galicia, etc etc. I think we should concentrate on the lesser known countries such as New Caledonia and French Guyana as maybe they will reveal something more helpful but this seems very hard for a black card unless the answer is very easy.

According to the Bible, language originated from God's conversation with Adam as God spoke to him, so maybe the answer is as simple as EVE, the mother of creation??

Sorry this might not be much help, just thinking of different ideas!

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:22 pm
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Sirichj
Guest


By the way there seems to be a lot of links back to Egypt in the reading I have been doing, I also found this which I thought was exceptionally interesting and maybe provides a new light on our thinking :

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
A mother tongue is something we own; we are its masters, so to speak. A language that neither we nor anyone else speaks as a mother tongue, a language, furthermore, that is considered sacred by its users, does not have owners - only custodians. Arabs are the custodians of their official language but not its owners. That has a surprising number of consequences.

In Egypt, the mother tongue of the majority is Egyptian Arabic. Classical Arabic - the language of bureaucracy, education and almost all that is published, from newspapers to books of fiction and non-fiction - is sufficiently different from Egyptian Arabic that one can only learn it by going to school. That is the situation throughout the Arab world.

Although Egyptians love their language and use it for all purposes, they are also brought up to denigrate it, convinced that their mother tongue could not possibly serve the serious functions that are fulfilled by classical Arabic. Several people told me that when they were going to school their teachers would say things such as "My ears don't allow the language of donkeys," in order to discourage them from speaking in Egyptian Arabic.


PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:27 pm
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Reid_Malenfant
Boot


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 13
Location: California, United States

Austin wrote:


The words "L(a)rousse aims t a o" seem to appear but beyond that seems nonsense.[/spoiler]
Hope this isn't a complete red herring/faux probleme.


using Austin's idea i did some research. does any of this seem like a possible solution?

Quote:
It is estimated that 12 percent (4,200) of common French words found in a typical dictionary such as the Petit Larousse or Micro-Robert Plus (35,000 words) are of foreign origin. About 25 percent (1,054) of these foreign words come from English and are fairly recent borrowings. The others are some 707 words from Italian, 550 from ancient Germanic languages, 481 from ancient Gallo-Romance languages, 215 from Arabic, 164 from German, 160 from Celtic languages, 159 from Spanish, 153 from Dutch, 112 from Persian and Sanskrit, 101 from Native American languages, 89 from other Asian languages, 56 from Afro-Asiatic languages, 55 from Slavic languages and Baltic languages, and 144—about three percent—from other languages (Walter & Walter 1998).


*edit*
this Larousse dictionary includes all of the countries, even Japan. there has to be some validity to this, right?

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:39 pm
Last edited by Reid_Malenfant on Sun May 14, 2006 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lilian
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Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Derbyshire

now thats confusing Crying or Very sad
oh btw tried
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
sea /language of the sea

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:54 pm
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Rifflesby
Boot


Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Mesa, AZ

tried
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
'larousse' and 'petit larousse' -- no dice. That is interesting, though.


PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:21 pm
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Reid_Malenfant
Boot


Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 13
Location: California, United States

im locked out for 17 more hours so if someone wants to try the larousse angle:

Quote:
Le Petit Larousse is a French-language reference book first appearing in 1905 and later published in a 100th anniversary edition in 2005. The book has two main sections: a dictionary featuring common words and an encyclopedia of proper nouns (compare encyclopedic dictionary).

Upon its 100th anniversary, a history of Le Petit Larousse was published called La dent-de-lion, la semeuse et le Petit Larousse written by Jean Pruvost. Le Petit Larousse 2006 (published in 2005) includes 90,000 entries, 200,000 definitions, and 5,000 illustrations. The following editions are available:


PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:41 pm
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209

On an alternate note, I tried

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Mitochondrial DNA
Genetic Code

Taking a line from universal language and 'Mother Tongue' (Mitochondrial DNA is only passed from the Mother) - but without success.

I haven't tried DNA yet


though this is a long bow and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the list of countries. Then again what did the answer to Earth's Desting REALLY have to do with the card other than in the most trivial sense.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:46 am
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Lilian
Boot

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Derbyshire

can confirm that

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
dna


is not the answer
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:08 am
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opsis
Boot

Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Guernsey

A few more that are not the solution: -
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Patois Vernacular Sumerian Phrygian Satem

I am not convinced by the anagram route as there are too many possible substitute letters e.g. Holland/Netherlands, Ireland/Eire. However, I am not getting very far with my search for proto-languages or establishing exclusive links between the countries on the map. As soon as I spot a connection I think of commonality with a country not on the map.
This is a tough one for a black card!

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:26 am
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NirdGerl
Kilroy

Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 2

Personally I am very much against the anagram idea, for most ofthe reasons other people have stated.

I think that cards without questions require elegant answers, an answer which when examined makes sense as the only possible answer in light of the facts.

As such I think that this map with which we are presented is probably an actual map which depicts SOMETHING. Not countries which the names happen to make an anagram, but rather a countries with something in common, a set of countries which are the ONLY set of countries which could be used to illustrate the answer.

I mean if it wasan anagram then there'd be lots of ways of doing it. You could drop USA and add Uruguay.

As such I think if we were to take a map of the world and colour the countries according to some kind of factor, these countries would all be the same colour.

Examining further, the usage of the word native suggests to me that the answer will be something you will only find in these countries. Perhaps a native species, or a natural resource.

Also the background looks to me like either the plunge pool of a waterfall or the shore of a sea or lake. Not all the countries have coastlines and or waterfalls and there are some pretty important lakes and waterfalls not shown on thism ap so that's not the answer, but I'd guess that water is somehow important.

All of that said, I don't have a clue what the answer is. One friend of mine said that the map was a Peter's Projection map, which is a very unusual projection to see in this day and age, which may be important.

I thought perhaps that maybe all the countries listed had a town with the name Peter in it (like St. Petersburg and Peterborough) but the answer is neither Projection nor Peter.

Just hurling my thoughts into the pot.

-Stacy

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:50 am
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anansi
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Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Leeds, UK

Unfortunately, the only thing I can think of when someone says "mother tongue" is phrases such as "what time do you call this?" and "you haven't called home in ages" Embarassed

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:57 am
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doublecross
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 588
Location: London, UK

NirdGerl, I agree that it is unlikely to be an anagram without any clues as to how to order the letters. However, it could be the initials of the countries, or some feature of them, in a particular order that we need to find. Then, it wouldn't be so vague, and the odd ambiguity such as UK/GB/Britain would be resolvable.

I like the idea of finding a feature that only the 29 countries share, but I would be quite surprised if it existed.
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:41 am
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the_fountain
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Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 14

doublecross wrote:


I like the idea of finding a feature that only the 29 countries share, but I would be quite surprised if it existed.


After Reading this I really thought I had something, With
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
DVD Regional Coding (Code 2)

Spoiler (Rollover to View):


But alas Wrong Track again,
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:30 am
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Rand0m
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: London

doublecross wrote:
I like the idea of finding a feature that only the 29 countries share, but I would be quite surprised if it existed.

I still think Micronesia makes 30...

The problem being they're so incredibly diverse, with some of the world's oldest nation states mixed in with places like Eritrea which only just gained independence and New Caledonia which hasn't yet (referenda planned, possibly). This latter problem pretty much rules out anything like UN membership, World Cup participation, gross domestic product etc as a means of sorting them.

Surely the diversity means it has to be some sort of solve based on letters drawn from each country or territory name? If not an anagram then a code or cipher of some kind? I know it's "only" a black, but Master of Secrets wasn't exactly a cakewalk...
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:55 am
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cthrag yaska
Boot


Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Bolton, UK

Following an earlier idea:
Rifflesby wrote:
tried
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
'larousse' and 'petit larousse' -- no dice. That is interesting, though.


Can confirm that these also failed:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Le Petit Larousse
French


PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:02 am
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