unforum

[jayde]

I'm wondering if the reading order is a red herring. The rear mast is the only mast with no repeated flags with a total of 17 unique flags.

And also going by strict patterns, you have 7 unique, 6 mixed, 1 blank, 7 unique, 12 mixed.

Not that I have any real clue what I'm talking about. I'm just staring at the card scratching my head. =) I just see that 'fetch my brown underwear' doesn't fit (old punchline...)

[donxkey]

guys im afraid i couldnt get to the museum today, it was closed since it's easter sunday, I gues I should have figured.

Ive sent them an email in the meantime but they estimate it will take up to four weeks to recieve a reply. The next time I can go wont be until sunday or monday next week as Im at work. the png images will be a great help tho.

sorry

[totoro]

hi I looked up the book 'British Flags' by Perrin in my library and according to that Rodney used additional flags 'in his memorable fight with De Grasse in 1782' it also says he used the old system of signaling which uses 'a large number of different flags each having a different meaning according to the position in which it was shown.' Perrin p166.
I don't know if there is anyway to find out how the positioning of the flags affects its meaning, but I just thought you should know?
Oh do you want me to type up the two pages that I got this info from I know I babble on a bit?

[Jakeo]

I've done some digging regarding the historic use of signals, and have traced most of them down to the Duke of York's Sailing and Fighting Instructions. You can get a text copy of this here (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/16695)

The problem I have with this approach (having read portions of the above book) is that the flags used for these historic systems all represent commands and not words (e.g. 'Engage at close quarters', or 'Give chase') rather than being simply words or letters.

If I find I have nothing better to do I might trawl through the above book a while longer (its actually quite interesting) but I'm starting to think that this is not the right tack if we want to reach the solution.

[Jakeo]

Incidentally (although I don't think it relevant) one of the flags we have yet to identify is the national flag of bratislava (http://www.fotw.net//flags/sk-brati.html)[/url]

[GasparLewis]

The meaning of the flags is entirely unknown at this point; we're still trying to identify them all, and possibly the system in which all the flags reside.

I like the way "additional flags" sounds, Jakeo; if we could get images or usable descriptions of them, we'dbe in business, and at the very least have another set of possible meanings to work with.

Command-based flag interpretations could very well be as accurate; don't rule anything out. Any meaning to any falg may possibly be the one we're looking for.

And, I suppose weall should havce figured it closed for Easter; ah well. To net week, then, hopefully. The fact we have an opportunity is enough, so long as we use it.

[Sh1ft]

Slap me with a salmonid if this has mentioned, but I didn't see it in the previous 4 pages.

This image is found in Wrixon's "Codes Ciphers & other Cryptic & Clandestine Communication":

[cassandra]

My twopence:

the flags could represent the notes for any of the old broadside ballads/sea shanties (Drunken Sailor, Lord Randall, the Golden Vanity, eg).

I've done a bit of work on this but won't be able to fiddle with melodies till I'm home. (If there's any legitimacy to this angle of approach...)

[Sh1ft]

I think we need to look in "NAVEDTRA 16138-H Naval Orientation 1984 ed (Chap. 25 page 25-7)" mentioned here:

http://www.lpickard.com/flags.htm

The site also mentions the correct way to read the flags, right to left, top to bottom.

[Loric]

Sh1ft,

I hereby dub thee.... Sir Trout! I'm 99% sure that your higher up post is the 'International System', though it's black and white. The website is interesting, though... it will probably be useful to know how to read the flags once we decipher them.
Totoro, if you can post out of Perrin's book, please do so. Remember, people... we desperately need pictures of the flags and their corresponding code values. Descriptions of the flag systems are all well and good, but they don't help as much as a picture.

Thanks,

Loric

[Guin]

[GasparLewis nli]

Go right ahead cassandra; the wool might be over our eyes entirely.
With five flags completely unknown, everything is still up in the air.

[sandro]

A couple quick notes:

1. the 4th from last flag does not appear to be "turn" since it's actually *black* and white. At least on my card it's visually distinct from the blues used elsewhere on the card. Would anyone have used a flag that easily mistaken for another signal?

2. The fourth from the top on the last mast, is the (modern) french national flag. While at the time it wasn't in use as the french flag, I again have to wonder if they'd have used a flag so easily mistaken for another signal (red-white-blue). The same is true for the burgee (red-white-blue flag)

[wombatuk]

flag colours/code

[echidna]