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[Advice Sought]
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GuyP
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

 		You want people to know it's a game. If it's not a game, how can they play it? Do you see?

The only palatable solution is to create a game about something sufficiently trivial and non-threatening that its reality doesn't really matter. For instance, Who Is Benjamin Stove was about a mysterious painting, but even if there really was a mysterious painting, no harm would have come of it.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:28 pm
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Almighty
Boot

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 10
Location: United Kingdom

 		seems like there are some here who would appreciate what i'm trying to do, and some who would worry like crazy.

i'm going to think on this as there are obviously views on either end of the spectrum. i think it can still be done, but would need to be more subtly done, the kind of "back off, don't poke your nose in" could be done on a more general "we don't know who you are, but if you push further, we might" kind of way.

i'm thinking of giving clues which would result in players attempting amateur surveillance for instance, and watching NPCs make an exchange, maybe following them for more clues ? a situation where the "Players" wouldn't be likely to go in, or if they did, there would be a protocol for what the NPC would/wouldn't say. encourage them to watch, but not participate so to speak. more "fear of getting involved", rather than anything else. of course, this is more likely to work in a local ARG situation than a national thing, but could still be fun to try.

[edit] sorry if i came off an arse yesterday, was having a bad day, seemed to be saying the wrong thing all over Smile

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:42 am
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Puppy_Zwolle
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 969
Location: Not Zwolle anymore. really no kiddin'
GuyP wrote:
You want people to know it's a game. If it's not a game, how can they play it? Do you see?
And besides: If you believe it to be real you are most likely to or a. Think it to 'dangerous' or b. find it to boring. There is a small room between the two and to capture even some players there is very, very hard. Even unlikely if it is for a longer run.

Besides, as you see on this forum, most players are borderline paranoid and suspect even an ARG when an anchorman of a newsshow mispronounces a word.

Think of the rolercoaster-effect. People get into that because they will know the thrill but not the real danger.

Knowing it's a game makes them play, Rl will make them go away.

But as you are planning 'the play' it could be more like 'the neverending story'. It is a book about a boy reading a book. In that book he's sucked into the story only to discover that that was the whole point to the story... getting the reader involved. He actually did nothing but feel connected and therefore he was.

That way you have some flex in what the player should/could do without feeling him/herself at too high a risk and still have the thrill you seek.

Still. Be aware that what you scripted in your last post is also a script for 'secretagent recruitment'. Just ease them in with small stuff and before you know it they kill for you... if you play your cards right. My point is: People wanting to get involved in this non-game are a very special breed. Hard to find, harder to control.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:41 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		I started to laugh when I realized that two of the examples of what PMs shouldn't do actually happened, not because they were planned, in the game Art of the Heist.

Quote:
Do not structure a live event such that it would place the participants in danger of: arrest by the police (the good guys)


When Lou was hiding in the port o'potty during the rain-soaked Chicago live event, the involvement of the cops was a real possibility. (Same thing I recall with Anthrax101 hanging around waiting for a payphone to ring in ilovebees.) Now the PMs didn't structure it to happen that way, they had no idea Lou would cleverly elude them by hiding in the Port o' Potty - but still it happened.

Quote:
Another way to get into that uncomfortable zone in person would be to get into a player's personal space (standing real close, patting a shoulder, or a face) would be OK, but grabbing someone's arm would probably not be ok.


There is video of an actor grabbing a player by the arm, I think, during a live event at the E3 conference. The player was helping one character spy on another character. At one point, the characters had an angry confrontation that included the actor grabbing one player. Again, the physical contact with the player wasn't planned, but it happened in the moment. I recall Brian Clarke saying that the PMs held their breath when that happened. Smile

Quote:
Do not structure a live event so as to encourage participants to engage in dangerous behavior to 'solve' the clues


And then there was the player on the phone during the hurricane in ilovebees.

Which brings me to the main point: live events are complicated and tricky affairs. People don't react the way you expect them too; unanticipated things outside your control intervene. You simply can't control everything that might happen. Now in Heist, everything was monitered closely because they had the resources to unobtrusively watch and film everything that happened. The security was pretty tight (and they still had a major issue of things going off track at the event held at Coachella). You won't have a major corporation and a big budget backing you up, so you have to be even more cautious.

In Heist the players had to sign waivers and agreements before participating. - but of course no one wants a player to be injured - so that is the main concern. You should definitely look into obtaining waivers and consents as well, thought some might say that would interfere with the TINAG concept right off the bat. You need to be sure you have permission to use any private information given to you.

You need to be careful about not allowing underaged kids to play. You will be responsible if something happens to them, no matter what. If you have teenagers playing, in a live scripted event, you have to require that the parent be part of the event.

For the small group that you are thinking your audience might be, I disagree with some other advice. Most people remember vividly the instances when the game contacts them directly - by calling their cell phone, emailing, sending letters or packages. The impact your game will have on them may be greater than you think. Your particular group doesn't sound like they would be jaded or indifferent to a scary, unexpected call.

So make the most of what you can with the resources you have at your disposal. But, don't get close to harrassment, it doesn't sound as if you will, just stay far, far away from that line. You don't have to actually physically threaten someone to make the game real to them. Sometimes implied threats are more frightening.

And, now for my last bit of advice, the best way to understand the concept of TINAG well is to play a complete game with full attention and involvement. These abstract concepts become much more concrete when you experience them from a player's perspective. Having a solid understanding of the player's viewpoint will help you when you are creating your game.

I think your idea has potential and I hope you see it through. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:04 pm
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ItWasntMeISwear
Unfettered

Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 503
Location: Illannoys, USA

 		Here is an example of a RLE that works and does not involve the player getting in any trouble, danger or the like (this is just an example):

Quote:
At the beginning of the game, you are shown a picture of a person. The picture is shown enough times that you could pick that person out in a "line-up", without hesitation, if you were ever asked to do so.

One day, you are walking down the street (or you are sent to find something at a location and, at the location, you find a map which has specific instructions on it for where to go from there - which is the best and easiest way to pull something like this off, btw) and you are bumped into. The person apologizes and you turn around to accept the apology from him. You turn back around to continue on to wherever you are going when you realize that the man that bumped into you looked very much like the picture of the person you have been shown throughout the game.

So, you turn back around to try and find him in order to talk to him. You spot him a few feet in front of you and start walking towards him, as not to alarm anyone around you. You call out the persons name. Some people, including the person that you see in front of you, turn around... that is when you see that the person that you thought you saw is not the person at all, but someone that looks like him.

So, you turn back around and there, in front of you, is the man himself. You scream, he looks you dead in the eye and then turns around and starts walking away from you.

You try to follow but are continuously thwarted in your attempt: people bump into you, others get in front of you and start slowing down (causing the gap between you and the character to get greater and greater with each step).

You look around for the character and then you spot him, up ahead on a flight of stairs leading into a building. He has stopped just long enough for you to notice that he sees you and then ducks inside. So, you follow.

When you get inside, the character is nowhere to be seen ("probably ducked out the back", you think to yourself). The man behind the counter in front of you asks if he can help you. You respond by describing the character and asking where he went. The man says that he has not seen anyone matching that description come inside the building.

Knowing that you are probably not going to get anywhere with this man, you turn around to head out the door. Much to your surprise, there is an envelope stuck to the outside of the door with your name on it.

Inside the envelope is a note that reads "Your search for answers ends here."


All of the above is an example of a coordinated event that involves many people to pull off (the main character, the guy that is dressed like the character, the people who thwart your attempt at following the character, the man behind the counter, the guy outside who is told from someone inside that you are turned away from the door, talking to the guy behind the counter, so that he has just enough time to tape the envelope on the door) but it is possible to do and accomplishes many of the things discussed in this thread so far. Also, if everyone involved are your buddies, then this can even be done at almost no cost to you.

Again, this is just an example. Smile

Oh, and just so it looks like I read through this whole thread, I would also like to point out that it might not work out the way that it is written.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:40 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
ItWasntMeISwear wrote:
Here is an example of a RLE that works and does not involve the player getting in any trouble, danger or the like (this is just an example):

All of the above is an example of a coordinated event that involves many people to pull off...

I take it the "you" in the example is the player? What about players? It looks like a lot of resources being assigned to a single player. If this is for a live event with a single player representative, then they're already going to be on heightened alert, and the rest of your player base will be watching his back (either figuratively, virtually, or literally).

Maybe i misunderstood the setup here.

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:57 pm
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colin
Entrenched

Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Australia

 		I think now would be a good time to decide if the argument is about plausibility, or practicality.

Sure a situation can be plausible see "the game" movie.

If you apply "the game" structure to a community...your in trouble

you can put someone in an 'alternate reality' in real life..conmen have been doing it for...perhaps a few thousand years

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:17 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial
colin wrote:
I think now would be a good time to decide if the argument is about plausibility, or practicality.

Sure a situation can be plausible see "the game" movie.

If you apply "the game" structure to a community...your in trouble

you can put someone in an 'alternate reality' in real life..conmen have been doing it for...perhaps a few thousand years



I think the original question was more along the lines of "how close to an ideal (plausible) situation is practical?"

The answer as always, comes down to manpower. There just is no practical way to have more BTS people than players to make some of the "coolest" (as in Itwasn'tmeIswear's scenario) live events happen.

One of the "joys" of ARGs is the live events, which players try to make social events as well, meeting up with each other and the Character (example, the Axon enhotenation from ILB). Even if there are only 2 players, the PM team is usually lucky to have one member in the imeadiate area given the current geographic distribution of the grassroots community. Even the corporate groups that can afford to have more BTS present aim to have a much larger player/audience present (usually for advertising goals, to get some free publicity and the like).

I think some (I'd like to say many, but don't know about other PMs) start out planning with "is it plausible" then have figure out the practical application. The larger your pool of resources (people, money, etc.) the closer to the plausible ideal one can get.

edited for grammer.
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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:42 am
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