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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[BOOK] Cathy's Book - Sean Stewart and Jordan Weisman
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		Interestingly enough, I had a short article on ethics due for class this week and chose this topic to write on.

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/business/media/12book.html?ex=1307764800&en=89d58b6a0ea65b7d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Recent buzz in the Alternate Reality Gaming world has centered around the imminent release of "Cathy's Book: If Found Call (650) 266-8233," written by Jordan Weisman and Sean Stewart, who head up 42 Entertainment, a major player in the ARG world. To be marketed as an interactive novel to young adult girls, "Cathy's Book" is a collaborative effort between Weisman/Stewart and Cover Girl cosmetics. The authors have changed several items in the book to include references to specific Cover Girl products (for example, "[C]hanging a generic reference to 'gunmetal grey eyeliner' to 'eyecolor in 'Midnight Metal.'"). The work will also likely include other ARG-ish elements, such as websites, emails, phone calls, and other interactive contact with characters.

Weisman and Stewart are comfortable with the ethics of the project from a creative standpoint, arguing that they didn't compromise the integrity of their work or characters in order to include the product placement. However, the issue has drawn the disapproval of some booksellers (among other groups), who worry that the ads will fundamentally change the "nature of the writing and the nature of the story."

Another issue in the debate is the nature of marketing to teens and "tweens," the highly influential (and influenced) groups of youngsters between the ages of 8 and 19. Federal regulations already address the issue with COPPA and requiring that advertisements be clearly labeled, but will that carry over into product placement in popular books? Although many works of fiction reference brand names (Stephen King's "The Mist" is chock-full of product mentions, for one), the notion of specific, paid product placement in books, not to mention books meant for children, could be a sticky situation, perhaps profitable for the creators in the short term, but causing legal or ethical problems in the long term.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:16 pm
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Rolerbe
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 		Well, I got a couple of Sesame street plugs in for the word 'yuck'.
Will now leave it to others to plug their own opinions.

</flame off>
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:10 pm
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colin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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 		This argument has hardly even started and it already seems to be so twisted.
Quote:
"Cathy's Book" is a collaborative effort between Weisman/Stewart and Cover Girl cosmetics
I thought the article said the book was written and then some name changed to match a product. That's not collaborative.
Quote:
Will you treat this book as a novel to be reviewed, or as an advertisement, which is suitable for discussion in the business pages?
That I find quite amussing. It's a 'professional' ARG in a nut shell. It provides both, entertainment and advertising. It will be talked about in both circles of business and art depending on who you are.

Obviously Commercial Alert have decided there stance and are writing persuasive letters to win people over. More power to them, but reading hyperbole and black-and-white opinion and the usual FUD doesn't really swing my opinion.

What I do see as being significant is that books are treated as timeless. I know when I was involved with publishing a book we had to send a copy to the state and national library for archiving. If a book has references that won't be understood in the future, that seems a bit of a shame.

I think this is going to be an "any publicity is good publicity" situation

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:51 pm
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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 		I'm not sure what "collaborative" means to you, but releasing a product together and sharing profits certainly speaks of "collaborative" to me.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:16 pm
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Max Steele
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Quote:

The authors have changed several items in the book to include references to specific Cover Girl products (for example, "[C]hanging a generic reference to 'gunmetal grey eyeliner' to 'eyecolor in 'Midnight Metal.'"). The work will also likely include other ARG-ish elements,


Since when did replacing generic references with specific product references get defined as an "ARG-ish" element?!?

I see no problem with putting advertising into a book. The people who have a problem will not buy / read the book, and the people who don't have a problem with it will buy / read the book.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:30 pm
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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Quote:
Since when did replacing generic references with specific product references get defined as an "ARG-ish" element?!?


I believe you have quoted me out of context, having cut off the rest of the line that defines what ARGish elements I meant (other than the phone number in the title of the book).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:45 pm
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Max Steele
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addlepated wrote:
Quote:
Since when did replacing generic references with specific product references get defined as an "ARG-ish" element?!?


I believe you have quoted me out of context, having cut off the rest of the line that defines what ARGish elements I meant (other than the phone number in the title of the book).


No, I saw the other items you listed. But they were after the part of the article I'm referring to.

When you wrote "'other ARGish elements" after the sentence you wrote about replacing generic references with specific product references, you directly connected the act of changing generic references to product references as an "ARGish element".

Nowhere in that paragraph did you mention the phone number except for the title of the book, and you did not define that as an 'ARGish element', and there were no other references in that paragraph before writing "other ARGish elements" to connect that statement to.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:13 am
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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 		Ok, well strike the "other" if it makes you happier. Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:25 am
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Ehsan
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Joined: 09 May 2003
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 		Well actually you can read "other ARG-ish elements" as "other elements, which are ARG-ish"... at least that's how I read it Smile [/threadjack]

Books have always had real product names in them... Nothing specific comes to mind, but I always love it when I see real products. It just makes the book more believable. I hate it when the protagonist gets into his generic "European made vehicle".

So product placement in books has always been okay, but if the author is being paid for it then suddenly it's not okay? If it doesn't hurt the authenticity or consistency of the book... they didn't introduce a new chapter called Cathy Buys CoverGirl. They just replaced stupid generic references with something better... so what if they get paid for it by P&G.

Commercial Alert are just wrong in this case. If the advertising hurts the book, then let the reviewers make that decision and give bad reviews... but asking them NOT to review the book is just stupid.

/me goes off to write "The Italian Genius Code", a book which revolves around a professor from an old institution of higher education, as he solves the mystery of a murder in a famous museum which has a pyramid. The novel introduces controversial ideas about the legend of a "dish, plate, or cup" used by the central figure of a monotheistic religion during his last meal.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:08 am
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ScarpeGrosse
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addlepated wrote:
I'm not sure what "collaborative" means to you, but releasing a product together and sharing profits certainly speaks of "collaborative" to me.


From the NYT Article linked in the first page of this thread:

Quote:
Cover Girl, which is owned by the consumer products giant Procter & Gamble, has neither paid the publisher nor the book's authors, Sean Stewart and Jordan Weisman, for the privilege of having their makeup showcased in the novel. But Procter will promote the book on Beinggirl.com, a Web site directed at adolescent girls that has games, advice on handling puberty and, yes, makeup tips.


Seriously. Where in that sentence says ANYTHING about shared profits? In fact, I believe it says that P&G hasn't paid the authors OR the publisher. If putting a product reference in a text makes people "collaborative profiteers," then I'd like to say "Gucci, Prada, GAP, Old Navy, and BPAL."
/me waits for the money and fame to roll in.

And rather than recap what Ehsan said, I'll just say "yes. Good post, Ehsan."
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:55 am
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jlr1001
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Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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Quote:
Clinique #11 or whatever it initially was just as bad as changing it. I just didn't know about it until this article. This is a level of specification detail that can never be construed as essential or as an improvement of either the story or the writing. "She put on her prettiest/hottest/pinkest/whatever lipstick" and leave it at that.


I'll have to differ with you here. Just because the specific product name doesn't evoke a reaction in you, or resonate with some symbolic meaning in your mind, doesn't mean it can't. If fact it means you might not be the target audience for this story...

Malcom swiftly walked across the bank lobby's newly polished floor, taking a moment even to admire his elongated reflection against the black and grey-veined, white marble. He stops mid-stride before pushing his body against the heavy, copper-lined front doors. Looking over his shoulder he silently checks that everyone inside--all the tellers, managers, and customers--are just where he left them. Face down, prone. He even flashes a quick smile although no one's looking in his direction.

"Good for them, they learned fast," he says to himself as he walks through front door. Without pause, and without making eye contact with anyone else, he signals for the two-toned ferrari idling down the sweet.


there a world of difference between that and if I had him signal for the "Blue chevy nova," the, "yellow taxi cab", or even just the "car" waiting for him...

Now as a guy in his twenties I can't say that any brand of makeup, and especially those targeted to tween and teen girls, will strike a chord with me. But, again, I'm not necessarily the target audience.

(That doesn't mean, however, that I can't have a rich and rewarding experience reading the book anyway).



-jlr1001

p.s. Pardon the rushed and possibly bad prose....

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:52 pm
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krystyn
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Ehsan wrote:

* Ehsan goes off to write "The Italian Genius Code", a book which revolves around a professor from an old institution of higher education, as he solves the mystery of a murder in a famous museum which has a pyramid. The novel introduces controversial ideas about the legend of a "dish, plate, or cup" used by the central figure of a monotheistic religion during his last meal.


I just wanted to see that paragraph in this thread again. Cos it was a mighty fine paragraph.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:32 pm
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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ScarpeGrosse wrote:
[Seriously. Where in that sentence says ANYTHING about shared profits? In fact, I believe it says that P&G hasn't paid the authors OR the publisher. If putting a product reference in a text makes people "collaborative profiteers," then I'd like to say "Gucci, Prada, GAP, Old Navy, and BPAL."

Call me uber-cynical, but I kind of doubt the authors changed pre-existing references out of the goodness of their hearts, just because they think Cover Girl could use some publicity. Wink

In fact, since the book will be promoted on Cover Girl and BeingGirl websites, there is a partnership at work there. The authors will receive profits from the book sales and Cover Girl will receive increased traffic and (hopefully for them) profits from the interactive campaign.

TANSTAAFL.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:05 pm
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ScarpeGrosse
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 		In that light, I consider it similar to hosting Google Ads and blogads on your personal website (by hosting the ads, you're agreeing to help promote X, and if your promotion works, you get Y back. In this instance, however, there's not a guaranteed kickback that more makeup will be purchased due to reading a book that was shown on CG's site.), and I don't think anyone's arguing that the addition of ads dilutes the information given on the site or the site's worth. (e.g. ARGN)

Again, I think it's a pretty crummy arguement against reviewing a book that might actually offer literature of greater value to tweens because it references CG or because CG offered to assist in the book's promotion. CG doesn't promote many books or forms of literature - maybe this is just a really good book that they wanted to help promote (with a slight returned backscratching). I think the book should stand on its own and be measured by its merit as a book, not by its promotional scheme.

Also note that we all play games based on advertising and don't seem to argue much with that, and many people have purchased the book, Bad Twin, even though its essentially a Lost advertisement. We whine about too much Sprite or GM being whacked over our heads, but we keep playing. And I still don't drink Sprite.

*shrugs*

Peas versus Peas Still in a Pod?

OT: I'm an acronym moron - TAFFAALKGWHAT?!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:11 pm
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addlepated
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Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL

Anyway, I pretty much tried to present a fair picture of the situation in the little blurb I wrote. It's interesting to see how people personally decode it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:29 pm
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