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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[BOOK] Cathy's Book - Sean Stewart and Jordan Weisman
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Rolerbe
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 		Am generally staying out of it now (what, for like 5 minutes?) since my position is clear. Just want to draw one distinction.

An author using a reference to a real company or product for which no compensation is sought or given does so for a very different purpose than the bone of contention here.

Some products have risen to ubiquitous iconic recognition (e.g. the 'Ferrari' evoking the concept of 'powerful, expensive sports car'). An author may use these icons for dramatic shorthand and verisimilitude to the current real world. For such a use to be effective, the company or product must have gained that icon status independent of and prior to this use. There are always literary alternatives, but I'll grant that references to such icons can be effective. Still, different than what we're talking about here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:03 pm
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Ehsan
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 		Here's another one from the LA Times

I'm not sure if her problem was the word "eyecolor" (which this amazing author confuses for "eye color"), or the fact that she missed out on her chance to make ten grand.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:55 pm
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Caspian
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Commercial Alert wrote:
Will you treat this book as a novel to be reviewed, or as an advertisement, which is suitable for discussion in the business pages?


This is ridiculous. They answer their own question. Will you treat this BOOK as a NOVEL....? It IS a novel! Now, whether the mention of Cover Girl cosmetics makes it a terrible novel because the so-called product placement is over the top or not is the question at hand. But even if the main character's catch phrase is "I just LOVE my Cover Girl makeup!" and she says it on every other page - it is STILL a novel! If you think this product placement is so terrible, why not just let the reviewers do their job? If you're right and the so-called product placement is distracting and demeaning to the work, then the critics will review it as such. More likely, you're entirely wrong and the mention of a specific brand of cosmetics is a mere detail in a larger, greater work. There is no reason to keep reviewers from doing their job.

From what I have read and heard about this book, this is can hardly be called "product placement" and definitely not a "collaborative effort". OK, so let's say an agreement was made between P&G and the authors of the book to change a few generic references to specifically Cover Girl references (or, more likely, specific references to competitor products to Cover Girl ones). In return Cover Girl would help promote the book. WHY is this so wrong? Think back to the TV of our parents/grandparents generation where you have the main characters of a TV show promoting the sponsors product! This is no where near that!

This is not a collaborative effort. If anything this is a small amount of collaborative marketing. That's basically what most professional ARGs are anyway! Do you think The Beast or ilovebees existed solely as a marketing device for AI or Halo 2? Of course not! While 42 was marketing their clients' products, they were also marketing their own: the ARG itself!

My personal opinion is that people are afraid of where this will lead and we'll have things like Harry Potter and the Magical Penzoil Potion. And I can see where that could be a legitimate concern. But talk about over-reacting! Instead of trying to snuff it out before it can even hit the shelves, why don't we decide for ourselves if this or any particular work has crossed the line from unobtrusive collaborative marketing into shameless product whoring. Given the author in question, my guess is Cathy's Book will be the former.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:56 pm
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Fi
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 		It's made it to UK broadsheet The Times too.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:49 am
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HaxanMike
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 		This is an interesting thread, and I've been looking at both sides with an eye towards context:

1. Many of the journalists commenting on the issue are themselves writers and so they carry certain biases, namely that product placement in fiction is an affront to the integrity of the work.

2. Many of the people commenting on this threat have biases towards the creators of Cathy's Book, perhaps allowing for significantly more leeway on the issue than an unknown author might receive.

That being said, I think it is important to understand the mission of Commercial Alert (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Commercial Alert's mission is to keep the commercial culture within its proper sphere, and to prevent it from exploiting children and subverting the higher values of family, community, environmental integrity and democracy.


Commercial Alert has not at this time raised issues with other marketing related ARGs or games, as they have been targeted towards adults. Cathy's Book, however, is targeted towards adolescent girls, and that group is seen as more vulnerable to the messages from marketers.

Advertising and marketing towards children and youth in this country is heavily regulated because the industry has in the past targeted these groups in malicious and sometimes evil ways (hello Joe Camel).

Had the book been targeted more towards adults, this would likely be a non-issue.

Regardless of whether we believe Cathy's Book has been compromised or not, the perception of the work being compromised is a fact once money changes hands for consideration.

I'm sure the creators fully understood the reality of both issues before cashing the check and realize the brouhaha over their project is part and parcel with wading into uncharted waters.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:39 pm
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krystyn
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 		Which check?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:22 pm
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Max Steele
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HaxanMike wrote:

Quote:
Commercial Alert's mission is to keep the commercial culture within its proper sphere, and to prevent it from exploiting children and subverting the higher values of family, community, environmental integrity and democracy.


Commercial Alert has not at this time raised issues with other marketing related ARGs or games, as they have been targeted towards adults. Cathy's Book, however, is targeted towards adolescent girls, and that group is seen as more vulnerable to the messages from marketers.

Advertising and marketing towards children and youth in this country is heavily regulated because the industry has in the past targeted these groups in malicious and sometimes evil ways (hello Joe Camel).

Had the book been targeted more towards adults, this would likely be a non-issue.

Regardless of whether we believe Cathy's Book has been compromised or not, the perception of the work being compromised is a fact once money changes hands for consideration.

I'm sure the creators fully understood the reality of both issues before cashing the check and realize the brouhaha over their project is part and parcel with wading into uncharted waters.


Thank goodness we have groups like 'Commercial Alert' so parents don't have to monitor what their young children are reading! [/sarcasm]

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:55 pm
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HaxanMike
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krystyn wrote:
Which check?


I was using it conversationally. Substitute "signed the deal" or "danced with the devil" or any other similar term.

Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:30 pm
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HaxanMike
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Max Steele wrote:

Thank goodness we have groups like 'Commercial Alert' so parents don't have to monitor what their young children are reading! [/sarcasm]


That's an entirely different issue than what is being discussed, of course, but their actions could be seen as raising awareness so parents understand what the book is, thus enabling them to monitor what their children are reading.

Just so the topic doesn't veer off, and to be clear, I was neither defending nor supporting Cathy's Book. My personal opinion of it is very mixed, both as a reader and as a parent.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:34 pm
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rose
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Quote:
2. Many of the people commenting on this threat have biases towards the creators of Cathy's Book, perhaps allowing for significantly more leeway on the issue than an unknown author might receive


Speaking for myself, I am quite comfortable agreeing with this statement. I support Sean Stewart's work because I know the quality of his writing. Also, I have no fear of his being exploitative towards children. As I said before, I would encourage any teenage girl (as I encourage my friends to read Perfect Circle) to read his work, because he is such a talented, not to mention award-winning, writer.

As the parent of a teenager and the recent Co-President of the Parents' Association at my son's high school, I am concerned that adolescents have quality material that engages them in reading outside of the requirements of school.

An example: my son frequently reads novels based on Warhammer characters. We have at least 3 shelves full of these books. (I wish Sean Stewart would consider writing for them Wink ) Clearly these books help promote the purchase of Warhammer models. These books don't interest me in the slightest and I wouldn't call them literature. I have read enough samples from them to know that they have a reasonably challenging vocabulary and complex characters. The most important part to me: he is often found with a book in his hand reading. He is developing a love of reading that is supported by books telling stories he cares about.

Getting adolescents to read for pleasure works best with stories that engage them and their interests. Given that as a premise, coupled with what I know about the quality of Sean's writing, I feel completely comfortable with Cathy's Book and have pre-ordered several copies of it.

Whether I would feel the same about an author I don't know, I can't say. I hope that I would at least look into his or her work and even read the book myself, to see all the references in context, before I made a final decision.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:40 pm
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Arana
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rose wrote:
...But, more importantly, when can I buy this book? And give copies of it to my friends - not to mention my son's friends. Anything written by Sean Stewart is going to be art. ...


Available for preorder at Amazon.com

Although the cover art illustrated is different from that shown on Sean Stewart's site.

I think that using names of real products makes the book sound more "real". I much prefer "iPod" to "digital audio player". To say a character ate "Cheerios" makes a much more vivid picture than to say she ate "cereal".

The publishing world is VERY difficult, and I often think ESPECIALLY for talented authors. Getting a book published is a huge effort, and getting it to sell enough copies to provide a reasonable living for the effort is even tougher. Activities that help to get the word out on quality work are time/effort/karma well spent. I cannot find any fault with authors who use every tool they can get their hands on.

I find it some of the comments in this thread on unfiction to be incredibly ironic. This whole site is dedicated to the things we love which have product placement at their very core (Beast, ILB, LCP). I see these as examples of brilliant creative minds parasitizing the commercial interests to gain the necessary support to practice their new innovative art form.

"Citing evidence of cryptic product placement messages, Creative Alert® has sent out a broad call asking people across the country to stop answering ringing payphones..."
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:43 pm
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Fi
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 		More in depth description of the story from the Perseus site (warning: spoilers):

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Things weren't so peachy in Cathy's life before Victor broke up with her. Her father died unexpectedly, she's failing school, and her best friend is mad at her. But now things have suddenly gone from bad to very, very, very, bad. Take Victor, for instance. Sure he looks like he's around Cathy's age, or at least young enough not to make her mother freak out, but what if he's older than he appears? Like maybe 200 years older. And what does the death of Victor's co-worker, the strange mark that appeared on Cathy's arm, and the surreal behavior of several Chinese elders have to do with it? Through Cathy's unique and irresistible voice-and lots of proof in the form of letters, photographs, date book entries, telephone numbers readers can call, websites they can access, as well as secrets only a careful reader will be able to decipher-readers will enter a strange and fascinating world where things often aren't how they appear.


Sounds dark Smile



Edit: Spoilerized, for your protection. -SpaceBass
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:52 am
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aisforapple
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 		AD Placement in Fiction?
Eh.. Personally.. I really don't care about ad placement or product naming as long as its subtle and it flows into the story.


Also, Sometimes name dropping a product helps a reader identify the type of character we are reading about. I know that people sometimes assosiate personalities/characters by the type of products a person purchases and uses. If your a man who uses Old Spice one may assume that the man is older or out of date. While a man who uses Axes may be preceived as a younger or more modern type.


Even though its geared towards young adults, I am tottally going to pick up a copy..... Being 22 still implies that I'm young and an adult right??

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:11 pm
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vpisteve
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 		I stopped using Old Spice years ago. Now it's exclusively Avon Race Car. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:20 pm
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thebruce
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 		Alright, so after catching up on this Cathy's Book controversy, a couple simple questions:

When did the issue with Cover Girl come to pass? When I first heard about Cathy's Book, I didn't see any debate about product placement, at least to the degree it's at now... when did this happen?

Second, is there a specific release date yet for the book, or are we still just going by 'September'?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:41 pm
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