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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Catching the Wish (CTW2) » CTW2: Puzzles
[SOLVED] "Automatic Writing" from Book One
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pagrashtak
Veteran


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 78

Here's a couple of lines I came up with:

On one hand he had fingers six, on the other only five.
(2 +1) (4- 2) (3 4) (5- +2) (6- 5) (4+ 5)

"Choose quickly, lad!", he said with a grin, "No time to think, anyway!"
(1+ +1) (3 -3) (1+ 1) (3 2) (3 -2) (1 5)

I've constructed this in a way that gives only matching pairs of parentheses, hence the somewhat odd "fingers six" combination. You can easily reverse that to "six fingers" if you prefer a more natural sounding sentence.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:40 pm
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Citizen Kane
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Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Aglaura, NJ

Seems the print version had an error in it?

Hehe, looks like we either need to start over entirely, or look at the difference as a clue.
dream writing - online version.JPG
 Description   Online Version
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dream writing - online version.JPG

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:43 am
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Well that helps a bunch!

Here's a listing of the MATCHABLE PAIRS!:
Code:
with      (1+     1) make
choose    (1+     1) say
son       (2+     1) now
you       (3+     1) a
lad       (4+     2) he
only      (4+     2) to
careful   (4+     2) not
yours     (3-     2) no
someone   (3-     5) other
hand      (4-     5) five
six       (5-     5) anyway
scattered (6-     4) fingers
the       (6-     7) for
     

mind      (1     +1) looks
on        (2     +1) one
of        (2     +1) quickly
think     (1     +1) your
time      (3     +2) on
said      (3     +2) you
grin      (3     -1) what
had       (3     -2) real
it        (3     -2) to
look      (4     -3) he
alive     (4     -3) well

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:57 am
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

Got this, but it still doesn't make any since, to me anyway.

Code:

on one hand, he six fingers had, on the other, scattered five
with a grin, real, said he, it looks only to someone, not
you anyway, look your alive, well choose, say of what, mind you
careful, for son no time to think, quickly lad, make yours now

on ________ one _____ (2 +1) = 3
hand ______ he ______ (4- 2) = 2
six _______ fingers _ (5- 4) = 1
had _______ on ______ (3 +2) = 5
the _______ other ___ (6- 5) = 1
scattered _ five ____ (6- 5) = 1

with ______ a _______ (1+ 1) = 2
grin ______ real ____ (3 -2) = 1
said ______ he ______ (3 -3) = 0
it ________ looks ___ (3 +1) = 4
only ______ to ______ (4+ 2) = 6
someone ___ not _____ (3- 2) = 1
      
you _______ anyway __ (3+ 5) = 8
look ______ your ____ (4 +1) = 5
alive _____ well ____ (4 -3) = 1
choose ____ say _____ (1+ 1) = 2
of ________ what ____ (2 -1) = 1
mind ______ you _____ (1 +2) = 3
      
careful ___ for _____ (4+ 7) = 11 [edit] I had this wrong. So, I fixed it.
son _______ no ______ (2+ 2) = 4
time ______ to ______ (3 -2) = 1
think _____ quickly _ (1 +1) = 2
lad _______ make ____ (4+ 1) = 5
yours _____ now _____ (3- 1) = 2


PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:15 pm
Last edited by Sylvia on Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:43 am; edited 3 times in total
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

Does anyone think the fact that it is on Stenography paper is important? Or is a piece of paper just a piece of paper? With the words that a written down the center of tha page I don't know If I am making too much out of it.

I'm also going to ignore the words for a moment and just look at the numbers for a minute.

We have 48 numbers, 24 pairs. Especially now that we have a corrected puzzle to work with.

I did a google search on 24 pairs and cypher and came up with a paper on the Voynich Manuscript which had this interesting tidbit of information locked inside it...

{emphasis is mine}
Quote:


The Conjecture

Well before this point, I made the conjecture, but I've written it up as
linear argument, in the best revisionist scientific tradition. Lying
abed, brooding, I asked myself: "Robert, if you set out to create the
VMS - if you wanted to generate a cypher text with the superficial
regularities we observe - how would you do it?"

And the answer was pretty clear, though of course it may be quite wrong.

I would start from the plaintext alphabet, and create two alternative
encodings, one for the odd letters and one for the even.
A pair of
letters would be a "group", but the spaces around groups are for the
convenience of the scribes; they add no information.

Further, I would create the encodings so that the odd set looked like
typical roots, and the even set looked like typical inflections, in
a language such as Latin or Italian, much simplified. Each letter
pair would then appear to be a word, and from my niche in the Empyrean
I would laugh myself silly at future generations of would-be decipherers
who exclaimed at "the statistical regularities in the text".



My thoughts:

Given that we have a very small text and cypher to work with could it be that the numbers refer to a letter in the word above it? That then takes us back to the way Grumpy solved Greywethers.


Quote:
we knew that 1+6 is meant to show A and F (the names tell which 2 are there). what we didn't figure out was that the plus sign is meant as a tag (it shows you which ones are the same), so on the 1+6.html page the 7, 2 and 6 are tagged and 1, 3, 10 and 10 are untagged. 7, 2 & 6 gives 15 = "O" and 1, 3, 10 & 10 gives 24 = "X". doing the same for each page gives:


The only trouble is our numbers don't go higher than 7, and I don't understand codebreakingenough to direct anyone toword a keyed alphabet out of it...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:12 pm
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zounds
Veteran


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 146
Location: UK

I've been playing around for a while and haven't got anywhere, thought i'd post how I wrote it out, just in case it might give someone else a nudge.

Quote:

7 times (+

with (1+, only (4+, lad (4+, son (2+, careful (4+, you (3+, choose (1+

6 times (-

the (6-, six (5-, someone (3-, hand (4-, yours (3-, scattered (6-

13 times )

fingers 4), to 2), he 2), a 1), other 5), now 1), not 2), for 7), five 5), no 2), say 1), make 1), anyway 5)


-----------------------------


6 times +)

one +1), on +2), looks +1), you +2), quickly +1), your +1)

5 times -)

he -3), well -3), what -1), real -2), to -2)

11 times (

mind (1, on (2, time (3, it (3, said (3, grin (3, of (2, look (4, had (3, alive (4, think (1


PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:33 pm
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pagrashtak
Veteran


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 78

MageSteff wrote:
Does anyone think the fact that it is on Stenography paper is important? Or is a piece of paper just a piece of paper?


I wondered about this too, I wrote earlier in this thread about this being a possible hint at steganography. Or maybe the dividing line is supposed to suggest word pairs -- left half/right half.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:34 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

From Dale's Hidden Journal 060706

Quote:
Six fingers on one hand he had . . .

On the other only five . . .

You look well, son, for someone not alive . . .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:53 pm
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Citizen Kane
Unfettered


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Aglaura, NJ

Looking over it now. So far I think the first four lines are thus:

Quote:

Six fingers on one hand he had
(5-...4).....(2..+1)...(4-...2)..(3
On the other only five
+2)(6-...5).....(4+..5)

with a grin he said
(1+..1).(3..-3)..(3

You look well, son, for someone not alive
+2)..(4....-3)...(2+..7).....(3-.......2)..(4


stupid forums... deleting excess spaces...
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It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
--Mark Twain


PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:52 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

That's some great work, guys!.

Assuming Kona's is a high-confidence solve, it comes out as:
Code:
six       (5-     4) fingers     =1
on        (2     +1) one         =3
hand      (4-     2) he          =2
had       (3     +2) on          =5
the       (6-     5) other       =1
only      (4+     5) five        =9


Citizen Kane's spec gives us:
Code:
with      (1+     1) a           =2
grin      (3     -3) he          =0
said      (3     +2) you         =5
look      (4     -3) well        =1
son       (2+     7) for         =9
someone   (3-     2) not         =1
alive     (4


Leaving us with:
Code:
choose    (1+     1) make
you       (3+     1) say
lad       (4+     1) now
careful   (4+     2) to
yours     (3-     2) no
scattered (6-     5) anyway
     
mind      (1     +1) looks
of        (2     +1) quickly
think     (1     +1) your
time      (3     -1) what
it        (3     -2) real
                 -2) to


EDIT:
I'm thinking we're on the right track as all of kona's words are in the upper left half of the sheet. Now for the lower right.

Would "say" and "anyway" be good choices for the ending rhymes?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:04 pm
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Citizen Kane
Unfettered


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Aglaura, NJ

Okay, I think I might have something... The latter part doesn't rhyhm like I want it to though, going to try and tweak it.


Code:
Six fingers on one hand he had 
(5-    4)   (2 +1)  (4- 2) (3
On the other only five
+2)(6-  5)    (4+  5)

[spec] with a grin he said [/spec]
       (1+  1)(3   -3) (3

You look well, son, for someone not alive 
+2)  (4   -3)  (2+  7)    (3-   2)   (4

[spec]
your mind looks scattered anyway
+1)   (1   +1)   (6-        5)
careful now of what you say,
(4+     1)  (2  -1) (3+ 1) 
yours to choose, no time to think,
(3-   2)   (1+   2)  (3  -2)  (1   
quickly lad, make it real            [/spec]
  +1)   (4+  1)   (3  -2)


yeah, gonna tweak it...
_________________
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
--Mark Twain


PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:24 pm
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Citizen Kane
Unfettered


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Aglaura, NJ

Possible solve

Tweaked it. I would spoiler it, in case it was the answer, but the code tags don't like to be hidden.




*****************************************************************************************




[Edit]So if you don't want to know, skip to the next post and DON'T READ THE BOX BELOW! Razz [/Edit]




*****************************************************************************************






Code:

Six fingers on one hand he had 
(5-    4)   (2 +1)  (4- 2) (3
On the other only five
+2)(6-  5)    (4+  5)
with a grin  he said
(1+  1)  (3   -3) (3
You look well, son, for someone not alive 
+2)  (4   -3)  (2+  7)   (3-     2)   (4
quickly lad, no time to think,
+1)     (4+  2)  (3  -2)  (1
your mind looks scattered anyway
+1)   (1   +1)   (6-        5)
yours to choose, make it real
(3-   2)   (1+   1)   (3  -2)
careful now, of what you say
(4+     1)   (2  -1) (3+ 1)


Any thoughts on this?
_________________
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
--Mark Twain


PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:40 pm
Last edited by Citizen Kane on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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LatentMoths
Unfettered


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 523
Location: Texas

Twas wondering through and thought I would offer my $0.02. I hope you don't mind an "outsider's" input as I am not actively playing this, but here goes...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Using Citizen Kane's poem and doing the math on the numbers, I get 132519205191561221121514 which if you switch to alphabet gives "mystesofavalon". It looks like Mists of Avalon or Mysteries of Avalon. I don't know if some words can be switched or if my math is wrong, but it looks like it's trying to spell out something. Also, I don't know if either of those means anything to you guys as I didn't follow the first Wish either. Hope that helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:13 am
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goldranger
Kl00

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 42

ilikepucks wrote:
Twas wondering through and thought I would offer my $0.02. I hope you don't mind an "outsider's" input as I am not actively playing this, but here goes...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Using Citizen Kane's poem and doing the math on the numbers, I get 132519205191561221121514 which if you switch to alphabet gives "mystesofavalon". It looks like Mists of Avalon or Mysteries of Avalon. I don't know if some words can be switched or if my math is wrong, but it looks like it's trying to spell out something. Also, I don't know if either of those means anything to you guys as I didn't follow the first Wish either. Hope that helps.


Hmmmm...that might go along with the other puzzle involving Dale's animal dream:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
To go from "mystesofavalon" to "mysteriesofavalon" you need three letters, "rie". The phrase that was gotten from that animal dream was "three letters saved". Maybe "rie" are the letters saved?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:43 am
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sinyx
Decorated


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Brooklyn, NY

From here

Mystes Ancient Greek - from muo to close the mouth

Plural mystai. An initiate to the first degrees of the Mysteries; the next higher rank being that of the epoptes (seer); and the highest function being that of the hierophantes (teacher or communicator). With the Pythagoreans the neophyte or mystes guarded silence as to what he had learned, and was authorized and empowered to speak or teach only when his mouth had been opened because of attaining the rank of epoptes.

This custom has been borrowed by Roman Catholic Cardinals along with the term Mystes: "A word or two may be said of the singular practice of closing and subsequently opening the mouth of a newly created cardinal. Like almost everything else connected with the subject, this form had once a real significance, but has become a mere meaningless formality. Some reasonable time was originally allowed to elapse before the pontiff in one consistory formally pronounced the mouth to be opened which he had declared to be closed in a previous consistory. Now the form of opening is pronounced within a few minutes of the form of closing"

Also...

In antiquity, the name of the new Initiates; now that of Roman Cardinals, who having borrowed all their other rites and dogmas from Aryan, Egyptian and Hellenic "heathen", have helped themselves also to the musiz of the neophytes. They have to keep their eyes and mouth shut on their consecration and are, therefore, called Myste.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:06 am
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