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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: PoTC and Volvo
[LOCKED] [DISCUSSION][QUESTIONS] On the game's rules and cheating
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guesty1
Greenhorn

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

when you submit your answers to the riddles in the hunt website, am i right in thinking that it is that card that you write something on then click send.

if this i s the case how does it know that it is me typing that in, i mean i dont have to log in or anything?????????

im baffled

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:03 pm
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dhoule
Boot

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 25

guesty1 wrote:
when you submit your answers to the riddles in the hunt website, am i right in thinking that it is that card that you write something on then click send.

if this i s the case how does it know that it is me typing that in, i mean i dont have to log in or anything?????????


They don't, but the last puzzle(s) will. It will either have you type in your map code or email address to start the timer... or... if they've decided to start the timer when the emails go out (dumb) then you'll have to type your map code or email address to stop the timer. But for now, you can just play them at your leisure... everyone is playing as "guest"... there's no need to race through them quite yet.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:11 pm
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guesty1
Greenhorn

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

confused

when i input my answers to the riddles i input them into the card on the hunt scren which tells me if they are correct or false etc.

is this all i have to do or do i have to submit them somewhere else also. because how will it know that it was me that input those answers, i mean i did not have to log in or anything.


any help would be appreciated as i think im doing something wrong.

EDIT - deleted duplicate post. Please push the "submit" button only once! Patience is a virtue! Multiple button pushings result in multiple postings! Multiple postings make your moderators mad! Thank you for your compliance and single button pushing. - SG

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:16 pm
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guesty1
Greenhorn

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

thankyou thankyou thankyou, sorry for the multiple message it wasnt coming up on my screen.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:18 pm
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gdesignr
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 141

DaVinci lessons learned

If they want it to be fair, they need to announce the time that the puzzle will be posted, and everyone will need to sign in to play at that time.

Doing it just against your own login time doesn't work, as we saw with the DaVinci code contest final puzzles... too many people completed the puzzles and then shared the answers. Some friends and families had a huge advantage as they would team up, play under one login, then go in other another login and do it much faster, sometimes with keylogging software. People who did the contest legit took 2 hours. Keyloggers took about 2 minutes. The only way to avoid that is to have everyone start at the same time.

Of course the DaVinci code did make everyone enter at the same time for the puzzle that picked the 10,000 finalists, and their servers were overloaded. Like this contest, the earlier puzzles did nothing to thin out the number of participants, as the answers to those early puzzles were also online.

The DaVinci one had another flaw, in that the finalist puzzle was way too easy, so you had to finish within 2 minutes to be a finalist. It was hard enough for some people I know to log onto the server in 2 minutes, as it was getting slammed from all the traffic.
Hopefully Volvo's final will be hard, and their servers will be up to the challenge of having everyone play at the same time.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:51 pm
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JustAWhiner
Guest


Y'know, I can't understand why dhoule is whining so much about cheating. If he wasn't looking for clues to help him through the game, then he wouldn't be trawling through this forum.

Elsewhere he's complained about the so-called time-lag and he's moaned about 14-year-old, non-passport holders playing the game. Well, read the rules - the very people you're complaining about are prohibited from entering the final. If anyone has a technical right to complain, it's Japanese entrants because the rest of the world has a greater advantage - particularly the US who not only benefit from more time to resolve the puzzles but also have three finalist places. The time lag is immaterial as far as Volvo are concerned - the XML files show that the games are scheduled to "unlock" at the same time according to GMT wherever you might be located in the world and they are selecting finalists from each of the timezones the game can be played in.

What staggers belief is that he whines about people reverse-engineering the code when he freely admits having done the same to the SWFs, the HTML, the XML, and the Javascript files. But of course, it's different for dhoule because he's only doing it for altruistic reasons. Pull the other leg, it's wooden...lol

I doubt very much that Volvo care about "cheating" - they've covered their butts as far as the legal side of things go in that it's a game of skill (and yes, even entering an email address in order to play the game can be over-challenging to some); they've acquired a huge database of email addresses for future advertising campaigns; legions of potential customers have ventured into their showrooms for the first time ever; and they've generated an enormous amount of free internet publicity to ride on the back of their TV advert. Not a bad return for simply lobbing a car into some hole in the ground.

And one final thought for dhoule to ponder - people who have, in his words, "cheated" by looking up the answers online are unlikely to find the car should they reach the final and have to rely upon their intellect to resolve the puzzles they'll face there.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:11 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

JustAWhiner wrote:
...dhoule is whining so much about cheating...


Play nice.
_________________
Voted Most Likely to Thread-Jack and Most Patient Explainer in the ILoveBees Awards.

World Champion: Cruel 2B Kind


PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:20 pm
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JustAWhiner
Guest


Final, final thought for dhoule. If Volvo were so concerned, why have they created an official blog that contains the following encouragement "Then, check back here frequently and me with my one good eye will be giving you a little nudge here and there to help move you right along. And, feel free to discuss the clues amongst yourself on these here message boards."

That simply proves they want as many people as possible to continue to take part right up until the 12th, so they can capitalise further on all that free publicity.

Pssst....Phaedra, I am playing nice believe me. It's just that I can sniff hypocrisy from ten fathoms away Wink

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:28 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

JustAWhiner wrote:
Pssst....Phaedra, I am playing nice believe me. It's just that I can sniff hypocrisy from ten fathoms away Wink


Using words like "hypocrisy" and calling someone a whiner are not playing nice, at least not in my book.

You can make your arguments about cheating without stooping to personal attacks, I'm sure. Smile
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World Champion: Cruel 2B Kind


PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:33 pm
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JustAWhiner
Guest


Ahh, I see.

So it's okay for dhoule to infer, as he's done on numerous occasions, that everyone apart from himself is a "cheater" ?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:44 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

JustAWhiner wrote:
Ahh, I see.

So it's okay for dhoule to infer, as he's done on numerous occasions, that everyone apart from himself is a "cheater" ?


No, it's not okay when anyone does it.

So let's talk about cheating rather than cheaters, okay? If people are worried that it's possible to cheat, I'm sure that can be discussed without actually accusing other posters of cheating, hypocrisy, hating freedom and puppies, or what have you.

So.

Last time I'm going to say it: play nice.

/me uncoils Moderator Whip and taps foot.
_________________
Voted Most Likely to Thread-Jack and Most Patient Explainer in the ILoveBees Awards.

World Champion: Cruel 2B Kind


PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:53 pm
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dhoule
Boot

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 25

JustAWhiner wrote:
Y'know, I can't understand why dhoule is whining so much about cheating.


Hmmm... I don't know... maybe because cheating is wrong?

JustAWhiner wrote:
If he wasn't looking for clues to help him through the game, then he wouldn't be trawling through this forum.


Hardly. I asked for a hint or two when the game first started... please. There's plenty of reasons to be here other than to get answers, for instance... to see how fast others are solving puzzles... to see if others are cheating (I'm not going to stay up late busting my butt working on puzzles if people are out there downloading answers days ahead)... to post occasional hints for others (which I've done.) Others might be here trawling for the answers, but that doesn't mean I am.

JustAWhiner wrote:
Elsewhere he's complained about the so-called time-lag


"So called" time lag? Apparently you don't understand the issue. Assuming the final puzzle has something to start the timer... I play the JP puzzle first, get all the answers, then fire up the US site later and plug in the asnwers rapid fire. I have now beat out anyone who does not read these forums and did not know they could play the JP site hours earlier than the US.

JustAWhiner wrote:
and he's moaned about 14-year-old, non-passport holders playing the game. Well, read the rules - the very people you're complaining about are prohibited from entering the final.


I have read the rules. Thoroughly. Maybe you should have read my posts more carefully. I don't care if they play, I "moan" about two things... first, when others get riddles ahead of time and publish them, and second, when outright answers are posted to the site... both of which can benfit players who are eligible to win. I'm hardly the only person to have pointed this out.

JustAWhiner wrote:
What staggers belief is that he whines about people reverse-engineering the code when he freely admits having done the same to the SWFs, the HTML, the XML, and the Javascript files. But of course, it's different for dhoule because he's only doing it for altruistic reasons. Pull the other leg, it's wooden...lol


Absolutely, no argument there, I have looked at the HTML and decompiled the SWFs. Difference is I did it to answer questions I had about the fairness of the game. I wanted to know if there was a timer that started when you played a puzzle... I wanted to know if it was easy to find riddles ahead of time, because, as I said before, if it is then I'm not going bust my butt to play the game seriously when it's so easy for so many to cheat. You doubt that I have altruistic motives... whatever... I couldn't care less what you think. I have asked for clues but never the answers, and have solved the rest honestly on my own before coming back the this forum to see how I fared against others. I can honestly say I have no guilt at all about my game playing. Can you say the same? Maybe you can. If so, good for you too.

JustAWhiner wrote:
And one final thought for dhoule to ponder - people who have, in his words, "cheated" by looking up the answers online are unlikely to find the car should they reach the final and have to rely upon their intellect to resolve the puzzles they'll face there.


You're not the first person who failed to understand the issue. I'll try to explain it again...

These first puzzles are not timed... it does not matter who gets to the end of these initial puzzles first. When all is said and done what does matter is really just two things... first, how many make it to the final puzzle and second, how quickly they complete it.

Without cheating: significantly less people would make it to the final puzzle, you'd be competing with a small number of the sharpest opponents. That's the way it should be.

With cheating: there could be many times the number of people playing the final puzzle. Statistically speaking that raises the chances a player could stumble on the final puzzle answers out of dumb luck and win in the shortest amount of time... when that player normally would never have even made it to the final puzzle. I liken it to a job interview... would you like to compete against two other people for a job, or two thousand? Even if all those other applicants are not as qualified as you, there's still a chance they get selected over you because of some chance occurance.

Again, I know that there are quite a few people who understand this and feel the same way I do, so I'm not really bothered if you still don't get it.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:30 am
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donshlong
Greenhorn

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 9

Im going to applogize for starting such a discussion .. and applogize to whom got affended by my remarks. There was just a concern ( a valid concern I beleive ) that we are doing a good job on solving such puzzles and then to have someone ruin the goodness of the game by exploiting backdoors etc..

So, lets continue with the hunt, find and solve these puzzles and share the information when needed.

again.... my appologies.

Donshlong AKA Wickedlover Smile

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:54 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

if it isn't against the rules, it isn't cheating

hehe- Lots of concerns about what might happen and what is cheating and what is or isn't fair. Here is one to ponder, from paragraph 9 of my new favorite document, the terms and conditions:

Quote:
In the event, for whatever reason, The Final Leg is cancelled, the Grand Prize will not be awarded.


Don't panic! This is just my rather heavy-handed way of pointing out that Volvo (subject to applicable laws) controls the game and the awarding of the prize. If the lengthy and comprehensive rules don't prohibit it, it isn't cheating. It may seem unfair and cause personal sorrow and woe, but it isn't cheating. Not only that, but it is outside of our control. The game design and the rules are set-up for us, we can't change them.

If Volvo decides to pick three finalists from a country with a larger population than others, or to require that a finalist have a passport, US Driver's License, Proof of Insurance and be able to pay certain costs, or to disqualify a finalist because they believe the Finalist uses profanity - that is just the way it is. They get to decide how they want to award the prize. It is their contest.

But playing the game, solving the puzzles with your family and friends, learning new things, collaborating with people on a forum like this, can be a fun and rewarding experience on its own. In fact, I know many people who play games and solve puzzles similar to these for the sheer joy of it, even when there is no tangible reward in sight. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:58 am
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dhoule
Boot

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 25

Re: if it isn't against the rules, it isn't cheating

rose wrote:
This is just my rather heavy-handed way of pointing out that Volvo (subject to applicable laws) controls the game and the awarding of the prize.


Very true

rose wrote:
If the lengthy and comprehensive rules don't prohibit it, it isn't cheating. It may seem unfair and cause personal sorrow and woe, but it isn't cheating.


Not true. There isn't anything in their rules about breaking into the game designer's offices and stealing files either. Just because every possible way to cheat isn't listed doesn't mean anything goes. And just because you don't think it's cheating doesn't make it "okay." That's the same mentality that drives the whole music downloading community... if it's out there somewhere for me to grab then it's not stealing. Wrong.

rose wrote:
If Volvo decides to pick three finalists from a country with a larger population than others, or to require that a finalist have a passport, US Driver's License, Proof of Insurance and be able to pay certain costs, or to disqualify a finalist because they believe the Finalist uses profanity - that is just the way it is. They get to decide how they want to award the prize. It is their contest.


Yes, it's their contest, but you're still running under the assumption that they've re-written some universal ideas about what is cheating and what it allowable. Tell me... why did they change file naming conventions halfway through the game to stop people from downloading files early if that was "okay" to do?

rose wrote:
But playing the game, solving the puzzles with your family and friends, learning new things, collaborating with people on a forum like this, can be a fun and rewarding experience on its own.


Absolutly no argument there. My complaint has never been about people solving puzzles here as a community, it has consistently been about 1.) cheating - using your knowledge about the internet, web files, decompilers, etc. to access information not available to the average person so you can solve things faster than people who are playing the game correctly, and 2.) posting complete answers instead of just clues or hints, allowing many hundreds or thousands of people access to the final puzzles (the ones that count) when normally they never would have made it that far.

rose wrote:
In fact, I know many people who play games and solve puzzles similar to these for the sheer joy of it, even when there is no tangible reward in sight. Very Happy


That's fine, but since this particular game does have a tangible reward, and these forums are viewable by the whole world, the cheating should stop (I'll look to the game designers to try and handle that, because regular people won't stop cheating on their own) and the posting of outright answers should stop (although that's pretty unlikely to happen) because these things can totally affect the outcome of the game and the awarding of the prize. People who are just playing and not even eligable to win can cause some deserving person to lose out on the prize.

Basically I just voiced my opinion. You and others disagree with it... that's fine, there are others who do agree with me. Point is that people on this forum keep talking about "community" and "sharing of ideas" and "helping each other"... but just voice an opinion about solving puzzles using just hints, and some honesty and integrity, and just watch the forum members blast you. Nice community.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:36 am
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