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Mikeyj
Unfictologist
Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1847 Location: London
[Meta] Can an ARG be too big? Prompted by recent occurrences in PXC including posts by UKver2.0.
Do ARGs have an upper size limit? Is this imposed by the infrastructure the PMs have in place or the nature of the puzzles/experience? Are small intimate ARGs more fun or does an ARG with vasty huge numbers of players have its own unique appeal? How big can we go?!
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:52 pm
SpaceBass
The BADministrator
Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2701 Location: pellucidar
Mu.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:56 pm
Ehsan
Entrenched
Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 992
- ARGs do not have an upper size limit, or any other formal rule or definition which anyone would agree upon, let alone impose.
- Small ARGs can be fun, and massive ARGs can be fun as well. Some players prefer one over the other, and some players enjoy both.
- You can go as big as you want to go.
My personal preference is 2 to 3 months long, requiring an average of 1 hour minutes per day to catch up to all the updates, regardless of whether you spend those 60 minutes reading websites, listening to audio clips, or reading forum spec.
Mu indeed.
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:36 pm
audioslave
Unfettered
Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 547 Location: Canada
It depends on weither or not the PM wants it to be big or not. If the ARG becomes a run-away and the PM can't catch up with the needs of the players, then ya, it's too big
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:09 pm
Mikeyj
Unfictologist
Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1847 Location: London
I think I meant to ask whether enjoyment levels differ...but I think the answer's the same.
I shall have to investigate the Mu archive.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:09 pm
Giskard
Sassypants
Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 2066 Location: Chicago
Although you really should check out the Project MU archive , I think that what Space meant in this case is the Japanese word Mu, which means so much as "there is no answer to your question as it depends on incorrect assumptions"
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:30 pm
European Chris
Unfictologist
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 1264 Location: London's trendy Whitechapel
Mikeyj wrote:
I think I meant to ask whether enjoyment levels differ...but I think the answer's the same.
I think if it's larger it makes it more difficult to recognise the people whose posts you enjoy reading and much easier to find people and posts which annoy you so although the puzzles and tasks are just as fun it can get a bit loud.
However I'm quite sure this does rest on the truth that 90% of people are stupid and 70% are rubbish.
Quote:
there is no answer to your question as it depends on incorrect assumptions
"When did you last beat your wife" being the most famous example of the use of this-it really is a deficiency of english that there isn't an altenative to Yes or No. However I'm not sure 'Mu' would be appropriate to the question.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:59 pm
Mikeyj
Unfictologist
Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 1847 Location: London
I originally thought mu referred to growth of bacteria and how this was analogous to the size of ARG (mu being the specific growth rate of an organism). Now I know that mu is a rubbish answer ...you've left me hanging here! What was wrong with my question...please?
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:25 am
chippy
Entrenched
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 789 Location: Leeds, UK
mu is not a rubbish answer, but is really a non-answer, usually given when the question cannot be answered properly. So for example "Do ARGs have an upper size limit?" seems to ask for a yes/no answer. This can't be given, so "mu!".
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:14 am
European Chris
Unfictologist
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 1264 Location: London's trendy Whitechapel
chippy wrote:
mu is not a rubbish answer, but is really a non-answer, usually given when the question cannot be answered properly. So for example "Do ARGs have an upper size limit?" seems to ask for a yes/no answer. This can't be given, so "mu!".
I thought it had a more subtle meaning than just 'not yes or no'. As Giskard said it requres the question to be based upon flawed assumptions and I'm not sure MikeyJ's question was.
I'm not sure why the question "Do ARGs have an upper size limit?" would have the answer 'mu' though.
I think a conversation about the benefits and drawbacks of small or large ARGs might have been more interesting than a Japanese word which doesn't have a strict English definition.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:27 am
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
It's quite possible that if one were to discuss whether an ARG can be too large that we would simply whiplash ourselves into several alternate pasts where we try, once more, to define what an ARG is (or is not).
So, in my mind, 'mu' is a lovely and elegantly simple way to respond to a question with such a large scope.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:18 am
European Chris
Unfictologist
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 1264 Location: London's trendy Whitechapel
krystyn wrote:
So, in my mind, 'mu' is a lovely and elegantly simple way to respond to a question with such a large scope.
Yes, but that's not the correct way to use the word. Assuming that you're correct, it would just be a way of avoiding the question as the scope is so large.
Mu doesn't mean "I can't answer that because the parameters of the question hasn't been defined properly".
I think a better question to ponder would be 'Can ARGs become so large in scale and in population of players that they become less enjoyable to play and lose their original character?'.
I would say probably but not necessarily, tit knows when you would reach that level and it doesn't really matter to the mother-squeezing PM as you've got a captive audience to bleed money from.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:47 am
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
"What is large-scale?"
"What is an ARG?"
"What determines the 'too' part of 'too big'?"
If these are not really answerable in a solid form, then yes, 'mu' is entirely acceptable.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:50 pm
Phaedra
Lurker v2.0
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 Posts: 4033 Location: Here, obviously
European Chris wrote:
I would say probably but not necessarily, tit knows when you would reach that level and it doesn't really matter to the mother-squeezing PM as you've got a captive audience to bleed money from.
Ouch.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:56 pm
European Chris
Unfictologist
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 1264 Location: London's trendy Whitechapel
krystyn wrote:
"What is large-scale?"
"What is an ARG?"
"What determines the 'too' part of 'too big'?"
If these are not really answerable in a solid form, then yes, 'mu' is entirely acceptable.
I'm not sure that's true. We've defined Mu as:
Quote:
there is no answer to your question as it depends on incorrect assumptions
So unless you would agree that either the concept of 'large-scale' or 'ARG' doesn't exist then the question isn't based on any incorrrect assumptions, however there are parts of the question which could be explored further.
By this definition any question about an 'ARG' couldn't be answered as we can't define it.
I think that makes sense.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:05 pm
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