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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: Questions/Meta
[Event] Post-event discussion
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
If it was planned from early last week it's disappointing that it couldn't have been run more smoothly (from what I hear, I wasn't there). Since this seems to be one of the few things the players really have control over, it would be worth talking about this further.



I totally agree with this. I do think it is possible to moderate a room where active puzzle solving is happening and not have it be as chaotic as this one was. In fact I have seen it done with great success in i love bees where the scroll was so fast you could hardly read it at times.

If the official room isn't working, perhaps the thing to do is to take the discussion back to a player room? That will give players an option as to where they want to be .
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:21 am
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Yembles
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Joined: 14 Jun 2005
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Location: UK

The 'official' rooms would have worked fine. They were designed in such a way that on-topic chat could be in one room and spec and meta could be in another. This takes the strain off of both moderators and users by making the chat 'flyby' a lot slower and by keeping mindless chatter out of the solve room.

Unfortunately the spec room had been accidentally made mode +M which meant only registered users could chat in there. It took us a little while to figure this out and fix it and by then people had spilled into #syzygy, #pxc-sf and other private rooms to spec. I imagine this would have added to the confusion, especially for the players new to IRC. How are people supposed to keep track of five rooms at once, when each of them have over 100 players in, at least?

I think the 'official' rooms would've worked a lot better if they had been used as they were asked to be. Adding more rooms just adds to the confusion if you ask me.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:40 am
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mac_monkey
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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It's very hard to moderate a room where you politely tell people not to post the status percentage every second and nobody listens. Most people listened to the warnings and I think most people got the idea.

I just think it's a shame more people didn't use the spec room for spec when it was clearly in the topic. Admitedly we did have problems at first for unregistered users, however they were sorted out within 5 minutes of the room officially opening.

I don;t actually things were that bad...

Yes I did have a headache afterwards, yes I was a little confused, yes people weren't following the rules that were clearly laid down..

...and yes, despite all that I did have fun!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:47 am
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sequoya
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The room was indeed fairly chaotic on Saturday night, but I truly believe the moderators did the best job we could given the circumstances. We had an influx of over 200 people all at once within the space of 5-10 minutes, many of whom had probably never used IRC (or looked at unfiction) before. The room was always going to be chaotic at first, and I think that by the end we did actually have it largely under control. I'm not convinced that the end result would have been much different had all 200 players been directed to #syzygy instead of #pxcsflive, which seems to be the implication.

Also, the nature of the online part of the event contributed to the messiness- we had several hundred small questions with no way of telling what had been solved (which I'm sure was intended by MC to get us to collaborate!), but many players seemed unwilling to post their solutions (whether on UF, the wiki, or another place) despite prodding from us - possibly due to excitement/perceived time constraints. So a lot of people were duplicating work and getting frustrated. When the 'Unsolved puzzles' list was posted everything became a lot easier, I think.

/me also had a headache for much of the event but did end up having fun!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:56 am
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Scribe
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Lessons learned

Certainly an experience, yes Smile I ended up trying to keep track of which questions on-line had been solved via the wiki, although for most sections this probably came too late to be of much use.

I'd say most of the confusion (for me) came about just because it seemed quite difficult to get a concerted group effort going once everything was under way. In amongst the fast-scrolling list of solves, the parsing bug, and confusion over which questions needed answering (why was highlighted in blue at the top of the page? did repeat questions need to be re-answered?), getting things to a state where we knew what had been answered and what hadn't was nigh-on impossible (until they put the list up near the end).

It was a weird kind of fun though - maybe cos I haven't done much like this apart from the AQSYS thang. Definitely some things to remember for next time something like this happens. Lessons learned:

1. The wiki is great for editing stuff quickly, especially once a page is split into sections. But too many people editing at the same time causes conflicts, so *some* kind of one-person-responsible-for-each-section system helps.

2. Geist's forum thread was also a good idea, but one list right from the start was probably needed. Get things sorted out quickly.

3. I stupidly forgot to turn logging on, but someone else was also keeping track of unsolveds, and posting a list to the room for the latest set. I think this worked pretty well for alerting people to what was left.

4. Most people will be too busy trying to get first solves than to pay close attention to people trying to organise group effort. The best way to work around this is, again, to sort things out as early as possible. (BTW, thanks to those who did help whittle down the list towards the end...)

I'm not complaining at all here - I think working out how to "mobilise" is all part of the challenge. Whether MC release enough information to get us organised before the event or not is up to them. The trick for us is to get decent measures in place asap to make sure nobody gets confused, annoyed or frustrated at the chaos. IMHO, irc and wiki regulars are in the best position to do that (as they know the tools...)

But yes, good fun. Even got in 1 solve and some Perl Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:13 am
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xena
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005
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Location: london

online gaming suggestions...

How about next time there's an on-line event, there are more IRC's, and the groups get to compete against each other??

MC could then allocate people to different channels depending on experience/how far they are up the leaderboard... that way the newbie's get a fair chance, and the oldies get a fair challenge... and the one's that complete their set first are the winners...

What you you think MC??

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:44 pm
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mac_monkey
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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I can see where that ide comes from, the problem is however that this was meant to be a collaboration exercise.

It wasn't about winning, or beating each other. We had to work together to ensure the task was completed. My feeling is that it is one of the 13th labour style tasks that simply wont get completed if the large community is split into smaller ones and put head to head.

Just my opinion, I'm sure I'm probably wrong anyway Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:58 pm
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jojojojo
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It's different strokes for different folks. One person is saying that the different rooms were confusing and another is saying that we need many rooms for many people. I don't know what the answer is and I don't think MC do either, as although ilovebees had set an example, this is a totally different context.

As you can plainly see, alot of the stuff that MC do is by trial and error and all they can do is make a well educated guess on whether things will work. And thats just it, the method *did* work, it just could be improved.

I did consider making the room moderated half-way through the madness, but as people were having problems with IRC in general, I felt it was not practical as they would of had nowhere to chat and become bored with the whole plan of PMing the moderators.

During the last half-hour, I was quite enjoying the mass chatter and craziness of the room. would it of been as exciting if it was orderly? I don't think so, the chaos caused an excitement and tension which made the event for me. Especially in the last few minutes when everyone was trying to get the video link to work. Some people saying "OMIGOD!!!" and others getting increasingly impatient and excited waiting for the video to download onto the screen.

Mass hysteria is a good thing people, it makes things far more interesting. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:02 pm
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rdknight
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006
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Split this topic?

The interesting thing about this topic is the division between online and offline solvers was nearly 100%. My experience as an on-the-ground player was very different than that of the online people, so those posts are a bit confusing to me. I'm wondering if we might benefit from splitting the discussion to 2 different threads?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:40 pm
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Cabbage
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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jojojojo wrote:
During the last half-hour, I was quite enjoying the mass chatter and craziness of the room. would it of been as exciting if it was orderly? I don't think so, the chaos caused an excitement and tension which made the event for me. Especially in the last few minutes when everyone was trying to get the video link to work. Some people saying "OMIGOD!!!" and others getting increasingly impatient and excited waiting for the video to download onto the screen.

Mass hysteria is a good thing people, it makes things far more interesting. Smile


I quite agree. For me, the whole online Google-puzzle-solving-business was not as fulfilling as the Silburn-Griggs adventure which was dramatic, exciting and (yes) at times emotional. But I still enjoyed it and stayed till the end. It was totally different, more like being in a crazy beehive, but the fun was in the communication with other cube hunters. Just my two Lecks worth anyway...

Cabbage Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:18 pm
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poozle
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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Cabbage wrote:
I quite agree. For me, the whole online Google-puzzle-solving-business was not as fulfilling as the Silburn-Griggs adventure which was dramatic, exciting and (yes) at times emotional. But I still enjoyed it and stayed till the end. It was totally different, more like being in a crazy beehive, but the fun was in the communication with other cube hunters. Just my two Lecks worth anyway...

Cabbage Mr. Green


And humerous Very Happy (see my signature Wink)

I stayed until the end but I doubt I would have without the teamspeak server to chat in, that was great fun Smile

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:28 pm
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Giskard
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
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jojojojo wrote:
During the last half-hour, I was quite enjoying the mass chatter and craziness of the room. would it of been as exciting if it was orderly? I don't think so, the chaos caused an excitement and tension which made the event for me. Especially in the last few minutes when everyone was trying to get the video link to work. Some people saying "OMIGOD!!!" and others getting increasingly impatient and excited waiting for the video to download onto the screen.

Mass hysteria is a good thing people, it makes things far more interesting. Smile


Well, as you said, different strokes for different folks. I for one became rather confused and annoyed quite early on during the event because of the mass chatter and people blurting solves into the channel like crazy, which pretty soon resulted in me retiring from trying to participate.

I'm not saying that making the room moderated would have helped, but exerting a little more control over the room, and maybe at critical times moderating it (which helps when you want to make some announcements that you want everyone to read), would maybe have created some structure in the chaos.

I also think that the nature of the event (lots of tiny puzzles and no real overview of what has been done and what hasn't, and needing to solve everything in a relatively short timespan) contributed to the messyness... there were some people attempting to keep track of progress online, but those efforts got rather drowned out I think.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:42 pm
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ouroboros
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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poozle wrote:
I just wondered, did the people at the event in SF get anything like a special leitmark, promo card, etc. Or was there just merchandise to buy?
There was an event t-shirt to buy. I or someone will post a picture, I'm sure.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:13 pm
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ouroboros
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"never go into the matrix without an operator"

It is my sense that live events play best when a field team is supported by an online operator. This is a relationship that the players probably should arrange.

On Saturday, my team pulled a puzzle pack (#51-Crosses) with puzzle#4144, a mini-trail. The initial de-code referred us to a website. We solved this by calling our operator and having him search the website and send the info. Ditto with puzzle#66874, which asked for the name of a bar under some hotel. The questions about movie dialog could have been solved in a similar manner, off-loading them to the online side. If my operator hadn't fallen asleep perhaps he might have been more useful.

Search-and-retreive missions are great for a live event. My team ended up playing urban forester and later arranging for the pickup of a note in a book at the library. We also brielfy occupied a neighborhood video store and watched the relevant parts of The Rock.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:22 pm
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Ashin
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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I had a lot of fun at the Event. It was great meeting a lot of people whose names I’ve been seeing around on here for a long time, it was also great to meet some people from other ARGs of the past.

But, I feel the same way as a lot of previous posts. Avoiding repetition and elaborating:

One thing I found particularly odd was the format of a lot of the puzzles I saw other groups working on, especially because:
Main Live Event page wrote:
What should I bring?
A good map of central San Francisco will be very helpful. You might find bringing along a pen and paper very useful. If you have a mobile phone, you should take it along as well. Same for a car.

No doubt some teams will bring along all sorts of gizmos like laptops, GPS devices and binoculars, but they won't do you much good - the most useful thing you can bring along with you is a sharp mind.

A lot of the puzzles were questions like “What is the 3rd bridge do you see in GTA: San Andreas?” or “What did Nicolas Cage say at 48:55 into the movie The Rock?” (these were actual questions btw). I understand that these were SF related questions, but it seems really disappointing to find out you possibly just traveled across the country only to have to go to Blockbuster and rent The Rock, go to some corner, and watch the movie on the laptop you were told not to bring. Combined with the surprisingly small amount of puzzles available, this could be the only solving of anything you did that day. Truly disappointing.

Ranger D, The Adam and I, got a fantastic puzzle pack that took us into the Exploratorium and around the city (thank you UKVer2.0 for getting us directions). I would have imagined most of the puzzle packs would be like this. Even though the logistics of Mind Candy paying for everyone to get into places like the Exploratorium would have to be limited, I think even if they hadn’t covered our entrance fee, most people present would have been willing to pay their way into Museums and what not, especially after paying just to physically make it to the event. What’s 10 or 20 more?

For the most part, the puzzle duplicity was also somewhat disappointing. There was already a relative shortage of puzzles to go around, but combined with the number of duplicates, it seemed by the end of the day that the only reason we hadn’t solve the majority of puzzles already was because it was hard for us to answer things from movies and games. It really makes me wonder what they were planning on when they set aside capacity for 1000 players and 500 spectators and we were essentially running out of stuff to do with hardly 300 people there (and only 3 with English accents!). Overall the puzzles and event were very fun, it was great meeting people and coordinating, and running around trying to help people that were stuck, and getting help with one of our team’s crazy questions.

The only part of the whole event that found particular sucky was the plot. After the whole thing was over, the resounding thing I kept hearing, even from passerbys, was “I expected more”. Nothing actually happened in the plot. There was no real ARG element to this event besides the participants. We got into the theater at the end of the day and watched a video. The phone call and mass exodus from the theater was cool, but nothing happened. There weren’t any characters or personalities to interact with, no mole in our midst, nothing. We established the link, watched a helicopter circle, and went home. For some reason that just doesn’t seem very ARGy to me (however, PXC is my first ARG, maybe I’m expecting too much). I just had this hope when the helicopters came that they would land or maybe drop something in the pond, or maybe you’d see a big flash and the connection would get screwed up. The biggest advancement that happened was the seeming admittance that the 3P are still looking for the cube.

poozle wrote:
I just wondered, did the people at the event in SF get anything like a special leitmark, promo card, etc. Or was there just merchandise to buy?

Not a single thing, not even a nice flyer or anything. The only special piece of merchandise was a sky blue Perplex City shirt that had Morse code for “Live Event” written around the top.

Sophiecat wrote:
As someone new to ARGs I was put off the IRC thing due to not knowing much about it, and from the comments of people at the Borders Launch it seems to be an exclusive club where novices are not welcomed. That may not be the case but it is the impression that many of us newbies have.

I’m really sorry to hear that. This was definitely not the vibe at the SF event. There were many newbs and surprisingly few veterans. But the veterans, including myself, were more than happy to explain the plot for past events and help out with cards. There seems to be a core contingency of PXCers that feel like they own the game to the exclusion of anyone else’s ideas or participation. I’m not sure why this is, but I don’t see them sticking around as PXC picks up more people.

Overall, the event was fun and I would definitely go again, even if just for the physical social interaction.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:56 pm
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