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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Chasing the Wish » CTW: General/Updates
The second of Three items
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		The second of Three items
Oh, I'm kicking myself now....

What is the second of three items....

ST1:t
st1:h
st1:e
st1:c
st1:a
st1:l
st1:y
st1:x

Torlax speced the calyx is the grail cup in chat we tried thecalyxSPLATtheanswerproject.com but I spec it wont work because it is the next thing we have to find....
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:04 am
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Torlax
Guest


 		Speccing
I'm not really sold on this, but it's a possibility. What was the first item we had to find? I wasn't around.

I tried a variety of Arthurian webpages over at greywethers, but to no avail. If it hasn't been tried already, someone should de-steg the main logo and see if anything is hidden; both the riddle on wpfd (the part about staring in the eyes of the clever mortal) and the stuff that Penrose has said about the steganographia make me think that there's information in there. But I haven't found a desteg program that I'm capable of working; they appear to be beyond my comprehension.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:36 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: Speccing
Torlax wrote:
I'm not really sold on this, but it's a possibility. What was the first item we had to find? I wasn't around.


The red Disc. the one that led to Diana's Grove and the hiking trails.

http://www.lundyisleofavalon.co.uk/mythology/holygrail/index1.htm
Has a nice pic of a cup above a standing stones circle.

also this quote:
Quote:

"There was a Thing that was called the Grail,
the crown of all earthly wishes,
fair fullness that ne'er shall fail."

- Wolfram von Eschenbach; Parzival.



And the following quote from further in the site
http://www.lundyisleofavalon.co.uk/mythology/holygrail/grailcastles.htm
(items in bold are my emphasis)
Quote:

"It is significant that in Arthurian Romance we have two Castles of the Horn, in both of which we may detect castles of the Grail. One is in the 'Vulgate Lancelot', and of it we learn nothing but that Claudas concentrated his army there, and that when he was defeated, it was bestowed on the husband of the Lady of the Lake. According to Malory this was Pelleas." from 'Celtic Myth and Arthurian Romance.'
King Pelles' Isle of Joy seems to be specifically a land of women such as that depicted in the Chateau Merveil and in its prototype, the island where the Irish Bran sojourned, and to which he doubtless returned.
*** 'But it is equally clear that Pelles' other Castle of Corbenic is situated on the mainland of Logres. According to the testimony of Johannes Cornubiensis, who wrote in the twelfth century there was a castle of Beli in Cornwall. 'The toen (municipium) which in our region is called in English Aschbiri and in British Kair Belli, is the Fatale Castrum.' This Aschbiri Loth has identified with a circular earthwork in the parish of Gweek St.Mary, placed on a hilltop, several miles inland from the Atlantic, and still called Ashbury Camp. It lies in the centre of a region which from early times has been rich in heroic and romantic legend. It commands a magnificent view to the north of Hartland Point, which Ptolemy tantalisingly calls the Headland of Heracles. Beyond, dim across the water, lies Lundy, the island which Rhys conjectured was the place of the mythical captivity of the God Gwair. South-west, about twelve miles away, invisible beyond the rolling moors, lies Tintagel, also a 'Fatale Castrum', for it was called 'chastel fae' on account of the tradition that it vanished from sight twice a year. Here at Ashbury Camp the Cornishmen of the twelfth century placed Kair Belli, the castle of Pelles.
'Johannes Cornubiensis says expressly that Kair Belli is the Fatale Castrum, in other words the Faery Castle or the Castle of the Fays. With this we may equate Kaer Sidi, now Kaer Sidi is one of the names of Annwn, where was kept the cauldron which would not boil the food of a a coward , a prototype of the feeding grail. If we accept the identification of Kair Belli with Kaer Sidi, and remember that Pelles had, as well an inland castle, a castle in the Isle of Joy, we can feel confident of our position. For it can be proved beyond the possibility of rejoinder that Kaer Sidi is identical with an island castle of the Grail described in Perlesvaus.

(quoted from Harrying of Annwn.)
'We have in Kair Side an island castle, four cornered, where are to be found a fountain, a cauldron, a prisoner named Gwair, and a glass tower with a sentry who would not reply to any questions.
****'If moreover, Perceval is that Pryderi who rules over the island where Gwair is enchained, then we may add the Ynys Wair or Lundy island to the many other islands off the British coast which had a sacred character and were believed to be the blissful dwelling places of the gods.'
confusion between Fr. horn = li cors & Fr.body =li cors Christianisation replaces horn with body as object of veneration. Also well documented scribal confusion between c and t ie. cors and tors. ie li tors (bull) as object of pagan idol. similarity of li cors to la cors- court. 'We can detect three groups of stories connected, respectively, with three castles: stories of the horn disguised as a body or cors centre about Castle Corbenic, tales of the 'tor' are associated with Chastiel Bran, and Castle Brandigan provides the horn of plenty misunderstood both as a blast horn and as la cors, 'court' .
'Corbenic' is the name of the Grail castle in the Vulgate 'Queste' and the 'Estoire'. 'cor beneit'- 'blessed horn' or from the french 'corbin' - 'crow' or 'raven'
'In Robert Biket's 'Lai du Cor' a drinking horn is sent to King Arthur by King Mangounz, a figure prob der. from Manawydan brother of Bran and Welsh counterpart of the Irish sea god Manannan. Biket's horn is a cognate of the testing cup in 'Diu Crone' which is sent to Arthur by Priure king of the sea. The related testing horns were also possesions of sea kings.
Priure = Pryderi & Mangounz = Manawydan Both are mentioned in 'Branwen as participants in the Hospitality of the Noble Head (Bran) and they also both appear in the 'Book of Taliesin' as dwellers in Caer Siddi. moreover they both appear in Welsh trad. conn. with a testing vessel. the Cauldron of Britain.



initiatesblue said:
Quote:

whatever we may do to aid in your preparations will be done
a test may be sent your way



ST1 said: fishermen

http://www.lundyisleofavalon.co.uk/mythology/holygrail/grailkings.htm

Quote:

The Fisher King = Bron = Bran

Arthurian scholars for the most part agree in regarding 'Bran Fendigaid ( Bran the Blessed )as the Celtic prototype of 'Bron' - the Rich Fisher or Fisher king.
'The immediate prototype of Chrétien's Fisher King has been recognised .. as Bran the Blessed, son of Llyr, the principle figure in the mabinogi of Branwen.' Loomis; The Grail, from Celtic Myth to Christian Symbol.
.....
....
Both are linked with the sea, Bron as the 'Rich Fisher.' Bran carries his musicians across the sea on his back and the remainder of his retinue follow in boats, the grail company are transported similarly on their travels to the west.
...
...
Both are have connections with vessels of plenty.
aGELESSNESS OR A SUSPENSION OF THE PASSING OF TIME.
bOTH ARE CONNECTED WITH FEASTS OR MARVELLOUS FOOD. the feasters experience a TRANCENDENTAL euphoria followed by a blissful forgetfulness
...
Both are ancestors of dynastic successions; A welsh triad GIVES as one of the three holy lineages of Britain the line of Bran; The kindred of Bron are entrusted with the care of the Grail IN BOTH THE 'Roman de l'Estoire du Graal' AND THE 'mETRICAL jOSEPH.'

...
The following was taken from an internet intro by Laurence Gardner to his book 'Bloodline of the Holy Grail';
"As we saw earlier, ordained priests of the era were called "fishers"; their helpers were called "fishermen", and baptismal candidates were called "fishes".



Priests/fishers= ???
helpers/fishermen=guides
candidates/fish = us
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:00 am
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dashcat
Entrenched


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 816
Location: Under the bed

 		Torlax,

The three items we need to find seem to be the same three items that Sarah unwrapped and showed to Dale during his trip to the other where ever. They were; the disk, a staff or wand, and a mask... a shaman mask. I call it a shaman mask because Dale's description of it resembles the mask in the Hands of the Shaman painting.

This is from Dale's chat with us after his return. I don't know if you've read it so I will post it here in case you haven't.

synthasiadale: And then I was alone in a small darkened room with this girl with pale skin and large brown eyes
synthasiadale: The room was filled with artwork and sculptures and books
synthasiadale: The walls themselves were covered everywhere with symbols and pictures, words and phrases
Eulalie6: sarah???
synthasiadale: The girl was looking around cautiously, as if afraid
synthasiadale: I watched her as she carefully took a brush and did something to the bottom of some paintings, as if signing her name
synthasiadale: Next she unwrapped a small object from a cloth
synthasiadale: And then another and another until three items were set before her
synthasiadale: One was a round disc, if not the same, very similar to the one Wes found
synthasiadale: It had symbols on it I couldnt quite make out except for the 7 pointed star in the middle
synthasiadale: Next to it was a staff or stick of some sort about eight inches long
synthasiadale: At each end was a stone of some type and entwined around it were vines or leaves I think
synthasiadale: And finally there was a mask of some sort. It seemed to have wings or something coming from the hair and ribbons or threads hanging down around it
synthasiadale: After placing the three objects before her, she turned at last to me and said, "You came seeking a way to find that which you have lost."
synthasiadale: Like the one before me, I have left a means for you to find the way. You must believe. In belief there is power, more than you can even know.
synthasiadale: The nine can move between but have lost their way
synthasiadale: Restore them to what they were and you shall be rewarded
synthasiadale: And then she said "Veritas Occultum" and repeated it three times
synthasiadale: as if to be sure I had heard her right
synthasiadale: Finally, she said, when this is done, these three items will call me and the way will again be opened
synthasiadale: You will find what you have lost
synthasiadale: And that was it, crazy as it sounds



All of the chat logs can be found in the UF and CD files
dalechatmay5.doc
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:22 am
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zounds
Veteran


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 146
Location: UK

 		Re: The second of Three items
Magesteff wrote:
Oh, I'm kicking myself now....

What is the second of three items....

ST1:t
st1:h
st1:e
st1:c
st1:a
st1:l
st1:y
st1:x


I'm not sold on this either - bit of a tenuous link I feel, calyx is not an obvious word for a chalace, it's more of a 'cup shaped' covering for a flower from what i've read, those letters anagram into loads of things.

'exactly h' is one anagram and we're not all wondering what the H means!

I don't think the 2 duplicated letters should be discounted straight away either, why not repeat all of them to various people instead of just a couple?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:05 am
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Stiffy77
Boot

Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Toronto Canada

 		Welsh myth
Magesteff wrote:
Quote:

The Fisher King = Bron = Bran

Arthurian scholars for the most part agree in regarding 'Bran Fendigaid ( Bran the Blessed )as the Celtic prototype of 'Bron' - the Rich Fisher or Fisher king.
'The immediate prototype of Chrétien's Fisher King has been recognised .. as Bran the Blessed, son of Llyr, the principle figure in the mabinogi of Branwen.' Loomis; The Grail, from Celtic Myth to Christian Symbol.



I read The Mabinogion in college and dug out some of my notes. In Welsh mythology there are two houses, the House of Llyr and the House of Don. In those days the rulers were male but the succession was passed down through the female side of the family (Llyr and Don were female). In any case, the characters are referred to as sons of Llyr, or sons of Don. This site is pretty good if you'd like more info:
http://www.cyberphile.co.uk/~taff/taffnet/mabinogion/mabinogion.htm
I'm pretty much lost as to whether this is significant or not, but I thought I'd pass it along.

-Jen
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:43 pm
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