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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: General/Updates
libraryofbabel - 07-DEC-06 - Pathways
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ramsfan
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Location: holmfirth, yorks

granama

The order might just have been a way of telling us where to start. We thought the number strings were directions, we'd correctly used the risk info to work out the directions, someone had suggested using the perpexcity map grid, but as someone else has said, it was still needle in haystack. So although I can't get anywhere with an anagram, I wouldn't automatically rule them out.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:39 pm
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Scribe
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Re: Order Spec
Speculation about the order thing

Wow, impressive first post, GameCatW Smile Sorry about skipping the details, I've got dinner on the go...

GameCatW wrote:
I tried using the number of steps as a simple substitution key, but it came back pretty meaningless. Anyway, the first few terms ended up as NZWFH, which seemed dead-end.


Hmm, that was my next suggestion anyway, as I thought it might help to explain the odd repeat-moves-along-the-same-street thing. Do you mean you shifted the final letter backwards/forwards by the number of numbers in the string? Did you try shifting it one way for right-way-up strings, and one way for upside-down ones? Not saying I have, but just checking before I go ahead and try it Smile

Also, I find it interesting that you mention substitution key, and we're starting at key square. Can anyone think of anything that this string could be the key to? I know a solitaire suggestion has been made, but I'm guessing Shuffled is quite separate to this Wink

(Plus, if this were a key, and the starting deck was the prime number cards, we'd still be missing some ciphertext to decode...)

[Edit] Oh, one other thing I was going to mention... I'm pretty certain that the CT order is the right one, as the "extra" 1- and 2- strings come at the end, as per a circular motion around the key square corners. That seems consistent with everything we've conjectured so far...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:42 pm
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remlin
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I'm wondering if some potentially useful information is which card each pathway winds up on. Is there any way to find that out? The only map I know of is perplexcitymap.com, but that only has the card backs.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:13 pm
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GameCatW
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Slightly Drunk Spec

Scribe, yeah - I listed both ways for the first like 6 terms, but had no vowels in either column, so I figured it was fairly useless to continue. The string I posted was taking the orientation of the original term into account. It doesn't seem to yield anything, but if anyone can think of another way to apply the string lengths, the list might be useful. Unfortunately, my knowledge of crypto basically extends as far as transposition Embarassed
If anyone has any number-crunching or logic-crunching tasks they think might be usefully tried, I've finished my exams at Uni now, and my days/nights are basically empty (oh the joys/woes of an insomniac!), so let me know.
I'm going to have a break from this for a little, look over my notes and so on. Maybe a flash of inspiration will come to me.

I agree with you, scribe, that we're using the right order. I think we're just missing the "key" to deciphering the ciphertext we've been given from our moves. I think now we've had consensus on the text string it's just a case of throwing as much as we can at it until we crack it.

In other news, I tried a couple things which came up blank.
Firstly, I took the + or - orientation of each term and checked it against a binary decoder, but came up with " (AE) ~ . T " " - so that seems like a dead end (plus we have two spare terms which don't fit into bytes of info). Then, noticing we had 42 terms which break down into 14 strings of 3, I tried morse code, but came out with GUKUDRGORKUUUG, which again seems basically trash. Just so you guys don't waste half an hour trying those.

I think the +/- orientation is a spent lead now, tbh. IMHO, we should be chasing the length of each string (which seems to have been artificially fixed, as we've noted), and looking for a key to the ciphertext we have.

Anyway, that's enough rambling for now. Sorry for the late night drunk spec, guys.

[edit = I've been throwing my brain at shuffled all day too, and seen as we've agreed that shuffled is self-contained, I think looking for an answer there is fairly redundant - making the whole thing alot more difficult to solve at least! Wink ]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:35 pm
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BrianEnigma
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remlin wrote:
I'm wondering if some potentially useful information is which card each pathway winds up on. Is there any way to find that out? The only map I know of is perplexcitymap.com, but that only has the card backs.

http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/mapgrid.html will tell you what the associated card is for a particular piece of the map.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:52 pm
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GameCatW
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Edinburgh, UK

Random Shot
Didn't turn out much, but...

I took the letter string with the associated step-numbers. Then I broke it up into the sets of 4. Then I took the term with the highest number of steps from each set of 4 and used the lot to generate a new set of directions, which runs:
1-213232324-1 : Not so useful really, but I plotted it anyway. Read as a positive, it ends on Schloss Street/Maxwell Avenue, giving S / M ; Read negatively, it ends on The Shift / Polis Avenue, giving T / P.
If you disregard the final term (given that there are only 2 strings rather than 4), you end on Free Flow/Maxwell, giving F / M or on Holl Lane / The Shift, giving H / T.
As usual, just chucking stuff out there so we can label it "done, useless" and move on!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:28 pm
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Scribe
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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S/M? Shocked Maybe that's M&S and I have to go and buy some socks and shirts...

Cheers for that link, Bri, very useful. I did start tracing which card corresponded to where each of the 4 paths CT gave us ended on, but I think this is a bit of a dead end because:

a) extra maneuvring at the end (e.g. 214 for the 2- string) don't move you on to another card. (AFAICS, the string could have ended with 12...)
b) I couldn't find any other way of getting the letter CT provides with the card.

Still, there might be something in it. CT did say that "There was meaning in every street, in every turn", which may indicate that the journey taken, as well as the end point, is important.

Hmm, off to sleep on it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:54 pm
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Cooldrew
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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Embarassed This is probably going to be disregarded, but her goes.

When I was much younger, I got a puzzle in school. Basically, it had a map on it, unlabeled, and a string of letters. It asked, which one of these countries was not like the others?
It took me forever, but I realized something. The names of all but one of the countries from the map were scrambled in the string! figured out what countries were on the map, and crossed them out from the list of letters.

So, my spec is this. Do we have a list of all the Risk territories we've seen so far? I say we look at the names of the territories, and see if any of them are in the long string we get from combining the number strings together. Anyone want to get to work on this? I have finals, so my week is shot Crying or Very sad

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:47 pm
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ampetrizzo
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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I tried to match the letters we came up with to Risk territories, but I got stopped with the very first letter (The only country with an "f" being Afghanistan, and it's not the 3rd letter but the 2nd). It's possible that each of the 42 letters corresponds to a Risk territory but it's not through that angle.

(Working on my term paper myself, Cooldrew. Or rather, pointedly not working on it, seeing as I'm trolling the forums >.< )

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:36 am
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ixalon
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Joined: 12 May 2005
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Cooldrew wrote:
When I was much younger, I got a puzzle in school. Basically, it had a map on it, unlabeled, and a string of letters. It asked, which one of these countries was not like the others?
It took me forever, but I realized something. The names of all but one of the countries from the map were scrambled in the string! figured out what countries were on the map, and crossed them out from the list of letters.


I've been working along something similar too (trying to anagram place names out of it so that they either, all belong to the same region/realm, or there's a distinct odd one out. The reason I thought of this is because we start this puzzle with the answer to the card the last number string is on, so what if we have to end with answer to the first card (which happens to be a similar puzzle to the one you describe - anagrams of placenames where one is an odd one out.)

Thankfully it's an automated task (which hasn't come up with anything likely looking so far) *paces*
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:54 am
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Mima
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I am hopeless at coding, and this might not even be what you were talking about, but is it possible that "arboreal" could be the key as we were given this at the start of the end game, rather than a feature?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:12 pm
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James Siegesmund
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Denver, CO

More spec...

Remember the part of "Ticks" where CT said "There was meaning in every street, in every turn, in every paving stone"? What if we have to either 1) take letters not just from the end streets, but also from the streets we travel on to get there, and/or 2) Ascribe some meaning to the turns we took, maybe by transposing those letters based on the final turn (i.e. -1 for right turns, +1 for left turns, or +1 for going straight, -1 for taking a turn).

I tried several ideas based on this to no avail, but here's why I think this is a good idea: I see three pieces of still-unused information (or at least unanswered questions) in the number strings.

First, why take multiple steps down the end street? As has already been discussed, several strings end with multiple steps down the same street, which is pointless as we now understand the strings' meanings.

Second, why not take the shortest route? I.e., if CT wanted to end the first string on Reflex Way, why use "1-14443432.5" instead of just "1-343.5" (or 1-344.54.5, if for some reason the ending intersection matters)?

Finally, why go to such distant streets from Key Square? If the first string was just supposed to get us the letter "F", why not just make the first string "1-14-1," and get the "F" from Free Flow?

Even my previous idea (that the intersecting street had some meaning) leaves #2 unanswered. On the other hand, all three questions would be answered if each street traveled on and every turn (or lack of a turn when continuing straight) taken mattered . . . somehow.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:18 pm
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Peter Blake
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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[SPEC] Link with Thirteenth Labour?

Has anyone tried using substrings of these 42 letters as keytexts against 13th Labour? I know we've tried all alphabetic strings, but it strikes me that, if different parts of the ciphertext were encoded with different keytexts, the algorithm that looks for sensible letter frequencies over the whole message wouldn't flag them as worth a human's attention.

Obscure: yes, unlikely: probably - but I think it should be checked anyway just in case.

Peter

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:49 pm
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rose
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Quote:
I'm wondering if some potentially useful information is which card each pathway winds up on. Is there any way to find that out? The only map I know of is perplexcitymap.com, but that only has the card backs.



I was wondering the same thing - perhaps part of the reason CT chose such convoluted paths was to point out certain cards as also being important?

Quote:
edit = I've been throwing my brain at shuffled all day too, and seen as we've agreed that shuffled is self-contained, I think looking for an answer there is fairly redundant - making the whole thing alot more difficult to solve at least! Wink ]


Yeah, I agree. It just seems to me that as the text seems to be (at least) doubly encrypted we need a way to turn our letter-string puzzle [formerly known as the number strings puzzle] into the next step which is, hopefully, the answer. A Solitaire cipher came to mind because it is one of the types of codes used on a silver card to encode text and because we have the playing card symbols, with a deck order, printed on the cards. I haven't tried it yet, but I will.

At any rate, I'm convinced that the solution to this puzzle will be based on the cards. So I am going back through them to see what else I can find that might be relevant.

About how we were supposed to solve this without prodding? That is a tough one. I think even if we had ordered the numbers correctly and then gone to the PerplexCity Map and plotted all the points, we might not have thought of using the letters. If we did think of using the letters, we would have no way of confirming that we had the correct answer or the correct letters, because if we are doing this correctly, the letters themselves don't give a final answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:17 am
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jonc
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So we use the first part of the number string (before the - ) to determine which corner of key square to start from.

What do we use the other end of the number string for?


Also, could this link in anyway to ticks? Presumably those numbers must mean something, could they relate to the same routes?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:00 am
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