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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Black Puzzle Cards
[S2] [Dice Set] #197 Murder at the Liars Club
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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MikeyjModerator
Unfictologist


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 1847
Location: London

 		[S2] [Dice Set] #197 Murder at the Liars Club
710 points
Guest Puzzle architect: Mark J. R. Wolf

front wrote:

Murder
There's been a murder at the Liar's Club, and as interim sheriff, you are called upon to investigate. Members of the Liar's Club always lie, and there are at least three members, and at least three non-members (who are always truth-tellers), among the seven people involved (the six suspects and the murdered man). Everyone involved knows who is a member and who isn't and even who the killer is, but no one wants to get involved for fear of becoming the next victim. Along with the suspects' statements is a written statement from Hart, the murder victim, which he wrote as he was dying. The case is definitely not suicide, and it is up to you to determine, from the seven statements, who is a member and who isn't, and who the killer is.

Archer:"Davis is a member, and he would agree that Flint would agree that Hart and Edgar are both members>"

Brown:"Hart would agree that Clark would agree that Archer and Davis are both non-members."

Clark:"Davis and Brown would agree that Edgar would agree that the murderer is not a member."

Davis:"Hart's membership status is the same as the murderer's."

Edgar:"Clark would agree that Brown and HArt would agree that Flint is a member."

Flint:"Brown would agree that Archer and Clark do not have the same membership status."

Hart:"Archer killed me!"


Back wrote:

Half-term Report

Kimber Knight

Mr. Boreham

4B

Kimber is a very popular girl - too popular for her own good. I'm sure you are aware f her disciplinary record this term, and inevitably, it has had a detrimental effect on her academic performance. She is bright girl and despite a torrent of evidence to the contrary, I believe she has a fully functioning moral compass. Alas, it also seems to be a magnet for trouble. We're doing our best to curb her wilfulness here at school, and it would be in her best interests if you could reinforce that message during the holidays.

Good Luck!


God I hate smug teachers who think they're funny...I'm having flash-backs.
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_________________
Irrelevant musings.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:33 am
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steamer
Greenhorn

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Wolverhampton/ Cardiff UK

 		Start?
Been looking at this puzzle for about a week now and just ccant seem to find a foothold Embarassed it looks as if working out the status of 1 will quickly yield a solution but hav'nt got that far yet. also seems as if archer, Davis, Flint and hart must be sorted first as they are the only ones who say anything blunt

any ideas?

edit: just after posting gave this a good look and have convinced myself

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Hart is a member because if he isnt archer is the murderer and archer and davis' statements make a paradox. this also means that archer and davis must have different membership status


PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:34 am
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aliendial
Unfictologist


Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		The solve page requires you to identify for each person whether they are members of the club and whether they are the murderer.
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aliendial

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:06 am
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simonaubrey
Boot

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 37

 		I get this as a possible solution. Does anyone get the same? Does anyone feel brave enough to try this solution?
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Archer - member
Brown - non member
Clark - member and Killer
Davis - non member
Edgar - non member
Flint - non member
Hart - member and victim


PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:59 am
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Sophiecat
Decorated

Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 171
Location: North East UK
simonaubrey wrote:
I get this as a possible solution. Does anyone get the same? Does anyone feel brave enough to try this solution?
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Archer - member
Brown - non member
Clark - member and Killer
Davis - non member
Edgar - non member
Flint - non member
Hart - member and victim


That's not correct, you just have 2 of them transposed.
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Undomesticated equines could not remove me - Teal'c

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:21 pm
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Eugenes Lair
Boot

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 51

 		It hasn't already been mentioned, so for completeness the title of this card actually reads "Muder at the Liars Club".

Probably not worth a Meta thread yet, but it's at least the second misspelt S2 card title, the other I know of being #134 - The Restuarant King (sic).

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:23 pm
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pineapplejelly
Boot

Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 34

 		Re: Start?
steamer wrote:
Been looking at this puzzle for about a week now and just ccant seem to find a foothold Embarassed it looks as if working out the status of 1 will quickly yield a solution but hav'nt got that far yet. also seems as if archer, Davis, Flint and hart must be sorted first as they are the only ones who say anything blunt

any ideas?

edit: just after posting gave this a good look and have convinced myself

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Hart is a member because if he isnt archer is the murderer and archer and davis' statements make a paradox. this also means that archer and davis must have different membership status


No, this logic is wrong because
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
well, Archer and Davis' statements do not make a paradox. I'm not sure which bit you thought was paradoxical. Remember one or the other or both or neither could be members.


The correct logic for that bit runs something more like this:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
EITHER Hart is not a member (and Archer killed him) OR Hart is a member, and Hart, Archer and the murderer are the only three members.

In fact the "OR" bit of that logic would not be something you would assume as a detective - but we can assume it because if it wasn't true, we wouldn't be able to work out the murderer. And Mind Candy wouldn't do that to us Wink ... right?
Basically
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
it's possible that there are four members (A, H, murderer, another person), but if there were, there wouldn't be sufficient data to tell which of the two members that weren't A or H was the murderer.


Got the card this morning - am so happy to have solved it already! It was very satisfying!

I will post a How To later in the week if people want/need it.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:57 pm
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pineapplejelly
Boot

Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 34

 		Oh, and a method-hint:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
You won't be able to easily determine who is/isn't members (and murderers) one at a time. It's easier to look at all possible combinations. You can get rid of some of them pretty fast.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:00 pm
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volvox
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Candy Mountain

 		My insane method
Not that it really matters now, but I'll add this here for posterity...

I basically did a brute force approach by listing out all the possible combinations, then weeding out the ones that don't work. It's insane, took several days to work through the errors, and is horribly inefficient. But, solving it this way became personal after a few hours, so I was determined to make it work.

I created all possible combinations, then all possible combinations for each statement. You can then hilight that parts of the all possible combinations list that agree with the statements. You can then pick out a few rows that agree with most statements, and weed out the answer from there.

Anyways, here it is.
MurderAtTheLiarsClub.xls
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:47 pm
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