unforum

[rose]

So, I've been thinking about this game and talking about it with some friends.
To me, primary emotion of this game is hate - hatred of us, here in the present, for not doing more and for being easily manipulated as well as hatred of the government, the military, and organized religion.

But maybe I confused hatred with something else.

Possibly, the hatred I feel within this game, is more like extreme rage at the world. And that rage, instead of being based on a deep contempt for people -what they do and who they are - might be based on a profound sense of despair, that the world could be so much better than it is, if people lived up to who they might be. That despair isn't be based on contempt, but based on a belief of what humanity might accomplish which is a kind of hope.

[konamouse]

If this is Trent's vision -
He's not happy with the US govt keeping our troops in the desert (he's not against the soldiers, just the higher ups that are pulling their strings).
He's not happy with organized religion (or the right wing/conservatives).
He's not happy with big drug companies.
He's not happy with the idea that the US govt might be controlling the street drug trade.

Is he a Libertarian?

[randomfactor]

I have to say I'm enjoying my first peek into an ARG as it all happens, but I agree that YZ does feel rather claustrophobic.

My particular beef has to do with the religion stereotypes. Granted, religious organizations have often played a part in perpetuating terrible events, but what about individuals whose religion is their reason for resistance [not sure if the alliteration is crap, but it came naturally, so I'm leaving it in]? What about the priest who hides resistance members in his church basement?

[CSfreestyle]

This ARG is the anti-Star-Trek.

[Shad0]

Re: [GENERAL/META] The BIG Picture of Year Zero

[KSG]

It's pretty hard for religion to remain completely unorganized when 75% (actual statistic, honest) of people are extroverts and the world's most popular religion's holy book explicitly states that its followers should meet regularly to encourage each other. Just imagine someone tells ARGers that they're great as long as they don't organize. Now multiply that a few times because most people care about their religion quite a bit more than their entertainment.

With any organization, you will eventually get someone who works their way to the top so that they can use that organization for their own evil purposes. That makes organized religion evil in the way that it makes governments and any business run by more than two people evil.

There are people who confuse faith in God with mindlessly doing whatever a random pastor tells them to. We call these people "idiots." Other good places to seek their mindset out include any military ever, any business large enough to have yes-men, and any voting population.

...So incidentally, no argument from me about patriotism.

I actually wasn't so bothered about the fact that there's an evil state religion in place in the game. I just sort of thought, "yeah, great, another mainstream rocker hates God and people who enjoy singing about Him. But at least that Presence thing is cool!" I was bothered about how any time it could be brought into the discussion, the guys at ETS would openly, randomly, and excessively use it as an excuse for Christian-bashing. I know that it isn't really getting played much at unfiction, but if the game is offending you religiously and you've been reading ETS, ignoring them might help.

My problem with this game is that it seems to be the ARG equivalent of a horror movie that relies entirely on fake blood to try to scare you. The Presence was cool, but it seems like that's just there in the background to try to add some sort of mystery that wasn't there in 1984. The chat log where the guys sent the data back was interesting and creepy, but they don't seem to be important characters, just an explanation for where all these pages are coming from. That pretty much leaves us with detailed descriptions of people being abducted, tortured, and murdered. It's the fast and cheap way to disturb the players, like gallons of fake blood in movies. It's quite the opposite of entertainment though, since entertainment is something you do to feel better than if you were staring at a wall blankly, not worse. If there were a goal to be achieved, it would make sense, but there are no characters we can rescue, no means for real-life social change beyond some posters on a website ("Wow, nice printout, I've completely changed my political views! Please, take all my money and use it for your cause."), and Reznor says this is the art form, not a means to sell CDs. The only goal left seems to be to get the one group of people outside of the Middle East who hate Bush most already to start hating him. I mean, way to teach the world something through story-telling. Big social change there.

It certainly saved us when Orwell did it, after all.

[ariock]

Quick points:

1. If all Christians did was go to church and SING, nobody would have a problem with them. It's all the putting their noses where they don't belong that is where the problems start.

2. ETS is more wild-west than UF. It is actually a bit closer to my roots, having gamed online for a good long time. But yeah, if you can't handle the contrary opinions of others, it would probably be best to ignore it. I believe the bible even cautions believers from consorting with unbelievers (unless it is with the express purpose of converting them). Though there's probably a contrary passage that says the complete opposite.

3. ...the horror movie analogy. wha?
3a. abduction, torture, and murder are just there for shock value like buckets of blood? Are you familiar with what our CIA has done in other countries? Are you familiar with what our government is currently doing to "suspected terrorists?" Note that "evidence" isn't a concern as far as how these people are treated, and large numbers of them are now being released from Guantanamo for a lack of exactly that. Note that it took a lot of fighting in the courts for that to happen, and that without that, they'd all still be in custody.
3b. Y0 is the opposite of entertainment because it doesn't make you feel BETTER? Implicit in this is the assertion that something like a horror movie (since you mentioned it) IS entertainment. I have to say that I certainly didn't feel better at the end of Carrie or Friday the 13th (any of them) but I was definitely entertained. I just don't buy this part of what you are saying.
3c. I would put it to you that this ARG isn't about entertainment in any case. It is about ART. The purpose of ART is to make you see something in a different way. Or just to create something that you think other people might find inspiring or interesting or even pretty. And to top it all off, you've missed the point completely. The point is: open source resistance. It isn't about talking to the political machines and telling them what they want to hear. It is about getting people who think they can't do ANYTHING, to give a damn, get off their asses, and at least TRY. I imagine we'll see if that has had any effect in about 18 months.

4. Is the bit about Orwell saving us sarcastic? Seriously?

[Shad0]

Re: [GENERAL/META] The BIG Picture of Year Zero

[thebruce]

[ariock]

[x]

Christian

[rose]

[Hati]

There's another Angle here

[thebruce]

nice post rose...

[Shad0]

Re: [GENERAL/META] The BIG Picture of Year Zero