View topic - [META] Use of online exploitation to find sites

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Forum index » Archive » Archive: Ephemeral » ARG: Year Zero

[META] Use of online exploitation to find sites
Moderators: BrianEnigma, chippy, konamouse, ndemeter

Page 1 of 1 [5 Posts]

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CSfreestyle
Boot

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 21

Re: [NIN][Website]consolidatedmailsystems.com

thalamus wrote:

there was talk of people looking up whois and registration records, and this may have led to a site or two, possibly even allowing us to find them before we were supposed to.

This may be off-topic philosophizing (if so, I'll apologize - I'm new to multi-thread ARG discussions, and acknowledge I might be ignorant to certain courtesies), but I don't think its in the spirit of the game to pursue new leads using unavoidable practicalities "against" (I use the term loosely) the game designers. At the end of the day, they are a business, and it just makes more sense to for sites to be housed in manors with similarities invisible outside of a DNS reference. It's the technical "suspension of disbelief," to use a theater term.

I believe the prevailing theory has been that these sites we are finding are the results of resistance-sympathizing scientists/technicians using some new-fangled quantum-data-something-or-other to send useful information (and banned literature - ie: The Hobbitt, Slaughterhouse-Five, Origin of the Species, etc.) to web servers of the past. Technically speaking, they would actually be copying the data from a computer in their time to the same computer earlier in the timeline. Whatever... those sorts of questions will be answered with the "Year Zero Technical Manual" is released, ala Star Wars, Trek, etc. My point is that there are some technical shortcuts to finding information online in this game, and well-intentioned gamers would be best served to turn a blind eye to such things.

Sorry to ramble. I'm tired. Being a huge NIN fan and absolutely awstruck by my first ARG, this is really eating into my sleep. I think I actually slept more in college than I am now...

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:59 pm

Caspian
Decorated

Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Milwaukee

Re: [NIN][Website]consolidatedmailsystems.com

CSfreestyle wrote:

Wlecome, CSfreestyle!

First of all, it is slightly off-topic philosophizing, but it happens all the time and is generally welcome and even encouraged. For future reference, we generally mark such topics of discussion (talking about what the PMs are doing, how we are playing the game, etc) with the [META] tag.

(@Mods, this might be a good place to split into a META discussion.)

You bring up a good point, CS, and it's one that has likely been discussed many, many times over in other games: whether to exploit thins such as whois info, DNS entries, server folders that were accidentally left unlocked, etc. I'm not expert by any means, so I could very well be wrong in this, but I believe a commonly accepted feeling about this is that if it's out there, use it.

That idea may seem a bit harsh, but practically speaking, even if most members of a community such as ours choose to take the High Road and not use such info, there will be someone who chooses not to do so. That information will get out there, and will be used to further the game. Good PM teams are able to deal with this and work things into the story. And sometimes this information is intended to be found and can provide clues to solving puzzles or furthering the plot.

If someone older and wiser in the ARG world could provide examples of when this has happened before, that might help. I believe I've heard stories about this type of thing happening in The Beast, Occular Effect, and several others.

CSfreestyle wrote:

Sorry to ramble. I'm tired. Being a huge NIN fan and absolutely awstruck by my first ARG, this is really eating into my sleep. I think I actually slept more in college than I am now...

Heh, again, welcome to ARGs and unFiction. I think many of us can relate to that sentiment. Smile

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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:47 am

konamouse
Official uF Dietitian

Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

Re: [META] Exploitation to Find Sites

Caspian wrote:

(@Mods, this might be a good place to split into a META discussion.)

Ask and ye shall receive.

Good topic discussion for new folks to the world of ARG playing.

It's acceptible to do a WhoIs on the website (hence the increased use of anonymous services) and IP lookups (and in the future, I suspect saavy PMs are going to be moving those around more).

It's acceptible to guess additional webpages (trying different things in the url based on hints & clue in the visible page or the source code).

What is not acceptible is brute force hacking to discover passwords. Or to change the PMs page. And fake pages to throw off other players is very frowned upon (and brings on loathing from others along with the wrath of the vulva puppet).

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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:54 am

twisted
Greenhorn

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

Re: [META] Exploitation to Find Sites

Well... being in the biz of doing just that, i couldn't help but run the sites thru a couple of tools of the trade from time to time when I get a chance, and haven't found anything worthwhile anyway. Not that I put much effort or time into it cuz I do think it's cheating (and probably wouldn't post any findings for that reason anyway) and I do have a job to do (at least I have to appear to be doing it).

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:01 pm

thebruce
Dances With Wikis

Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Re: [META] Exploitation to Find Sites

konamouse wrote:

What is not acceptible is brute force hacking to discover passwords. Or to change the PMs page. And fake pages to throw off other players is very frowned upon (and brings on loathing from others along with the wrath of the vulva puppet).

To take a alightly opposing side - IIRC, was it Elan, or Sean, or someone else from 42 who said a while back in an interview that they were glad a password got brute forced? I can't remember the reference...
The opinion I have now is that brute forcing is a matter of discernment as to whether it's proper for the arg or technically feasible given the resources in use by the PMs and such. For the most part, brute forcing is bad, and generally looked down upon, if only because the hardware used by websites may not be up to the task of handling such rapid, repeated, and consistent requests (bandwidth or server power)... but if it's feasible 'ingame' as it were, then sure, cautiously.
But even so, a good rule to live by is yes - avoid brute forcing unless there's a darn good reason for it, or you're willing to endure the potential wrath of the community Razz

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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:46 pm

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