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 Forum index » Diversions » TimeWasters
[PUZZLE TRAIL] "Torment"
Moderators: Giskard, ndemeter, ScarpeGrosse
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32


DOH!

Yup, I was doing something wrong Laughing

Thanks to tipsila for the PM, and the reminder to RTFM Laughing

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:59 am
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tripitaka
Boot

Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 35

Blocks Page - substitution methods ..cont

A note on the 1998 Edgar Allan Poe cipher challenge (Grngecko's first clue was a quote from a Poe poem) which was previously referred to by Uberg33k.

The final two unsolved ciphers associated with Poe were finally solved in 1992 and 2000. http://www.bokler.com/eapoe.html Both ciphers had a common history, both are based on substitution (one polyalphabetic) and interestingly, the plain text for one of them describes a disembodied spirit living on after the stars and sun have faded - which does remind me of Grngecko's second clue!

The toughest aspect of the simpler of the two ciphers seems to have been that each word was written in reverse... I thought I would just throw that out there in case that might be a factor behind everyone's attempts with the blocks failing. Grngecko wouldn't be that mean would he?

In the meantime I have been trying to map the block orientations to four of the alphabets in the polyalphabetic Poe cipher solution (without success naturally).

Edit
Hmm.. I just noticed in the geocache puzzle that the letter N is consistently reversed in the poe-m, Grngeko wouldn't do this to us would he?!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:04 pm
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corgipower
Boot

Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 12

the letter N was also reversed in the rot room.
_________________
more on torment and the blocks

dog training


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:30 pm
Last edited by corgipower on Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tripitaka
Boot

Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 35

Hmm yes Poe wrote the poem on the rot room page, the clues do seem to make sense...

still, perhaps he just likes back-to-front N's, who knows!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:45 pm
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Hmm. On what page of this thread was GG's "message" about going into the shadows? I read it once but didn't think to copy it.

As an interesting aside, has anyone put the text of the Cubes in CrypTool and hit "3D Vizualization"?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:43 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Wouldn't the Solution Key to get to the blocks ("shout yer rosary") and the "mind your manners" note indicate a specific decoding method for the blocks?

Or is that where everyone's headed anyway?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:32 am
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SuperSlug
Veteran


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 74

DrNewcenstein wrote:
Hmm. On what page of this thread was GG's "message" about going into the shadows? I read it once but didn't think to copy it.


The "hints" (if you want to call them that) from greengecko's forum:

Ye who read are still among the living, but I who write shall have long since gone my way into the region of shadows. For indeed strange things shall happen, and many secret things be known, ...

cold be heart and hand and bone. cold be travellers far from home...they do not see what lies ahead, when sun has failed and moon is dead.


First is Poe, second is Tolkien.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:21 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Cool, thanks.

I have a few theories about this block puzzle:

First, the key is hidden in plain sight. It must be. The complexity of it has already been noted several times, and it seems rather odd to have such a stronger encryption than the others (though admittedly, one must wade through miles of rice paddies to be suddenly met by the Great Wall of China).

Second, this is "it". The end that no one can pass. GG is laughing at the show, hence his message about moving into the shadows. He's done with Torment and will work on another one.

Third, the guy with the gas mask saying look behind you is the true path, and the clues are those Hebrew glyphs no one translated Laughing


Regarding the blocks:
Trivially speaking:
Rotating the image clockwise so the uneven ends are on the right, as was mentioned previously, 9 of the 25 lines do not have breaks:
2,4,6,8,10,12,13,17,22 (and those intervals are +2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+2,+1,+4,+5, for the number-happy out there).

I ran the whole puzzle through a Vigenere Cipher http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/vigenere.php
using each of those 9 lines as a Passphrase, and found that lines 1, 9, 10, 22, and 25 convert to all As when those lines are used as the passphrase (i.e. line 10 becomes all As when line 10 is used as the passphrase).

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 am
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tripitaka
Boot

Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 35

DrNewcenstein wrote:
...ran the whole puzzle through a Vigenere Cipher http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/vigenere.php
using each of those 9 lines as a Passphrase, and found that lines 1, 9, 10, 22, and 25 convert to all As when those lines are used as the passphrase (i.e. line 10 becomes all As when line 10 is used as the passphrase).


I think that use of a Vig decryption key taken from the text itself will normally result in resetting to A's if using the first text line... and that would hold if using any other lines for which the total number of preceeding letters is an integral multiple of the key length (which I would guess would be a common occurrence here since the puzzle columns are a similar length). I apologise in advance if I have misunderstood what you were saying though!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:53 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Anyone making progress?

Here's a letter-count breakdown. Dunno if it'll help:

a 23
b 23
c 25
d 16
e 22
f 25
g 15
h 11
i 13
j 19
k 21
l 25
m 22
n 14
o 8
p 26
q 18
r 20
s 19
t 19
u 11
v 19
w 19
x 5
y 20
z 10

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:41 pm
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32


Just to make things more interesting...

Has anyone considered the idea that this thing is already Decrypted, and it needs to be Encrypted?

I suppose it'd be the same thing, only in reverse. Kinda.

Anyhoo, more statistical nonsense:
There are 19 "bunnies", or periods.
There are 5 letters that appear 19 times: J,S,T,V,W
Running the number of each letter-count into a Letter Number cipher http://rumkin.com/tools/cipher/numbers.php
(like the puzzle a few pages back) produces:
WWYPVYOKMSUYVNHZRTSSKSSETJ

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:51 pm
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booba
Unfictologist


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1433

The "shadow" of the figurine on the Child's Play hint page is certainly no angel.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:00 pm
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eventfarm
Boot


Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Help with early puzzle

Sorry for jumping in here with a question on an early page, but I don't want to read through all the pages because I was starting to get too many hints on future (for me) pages.

I'm on the page that shows a picture of a grey brick wall ( I think it's the 3rd or 4th page). I know what the problem is and I know exactly where it points to. But I can not figure out the phrase that it wants.

Can someone PM me some help?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:04 pm
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SuperSlug
Veteran


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 74

Hint for eventfarm:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Research the text of the decoded message and find out where it comes from.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:58 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Re: Help with early puzzle

eventfarm wrote:
Sorry for jumping in here with a question on an early page, but I don't want to read through all the pages because I was starting to get too many hints on future (for me) pages.

I'm on the page that shows a picture of a grey brick wall ( I think it's the 3rd or 4th page). I know what the problem is and I know exactly where it points to. But I can not figure out the phrase that it wants.

Can someone PM me some help?


There are quite a few of those in this puzzle - you have to figure out not only what it leads you to but also the correct way to put it in.

Wikipedia has been a big help as far as providing a broad range of words to try.

#15 probably took me the longest because the exact location's name wasn't a "notable" enough name to be put on the one picture I had to go by, but I found the correct name by reading the article on the Wiki page.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:59 am
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