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 Forum index » Diversions » TimeWasters
[PUZZLE TRAIL] "Torment"
Moderators: Giskard, ndemeter, ScarpeGrosse
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

All in all it's just a....

Any progress on the Toy Blocks Of Torment?

I was thinking if you separated each letter by orientation - all the "rightside ups" together, all the "upside downs" together, etc, that maybe it was just 4 Caesarians all jumbled up? I can't imagine what a key for this would be, so I'm sticking with the Caesarian Shift theme.
H,I, and X would present a minor problem, since they could be either of 2 directions, and each instance could be differnt or identical.
O would obviously present the biggest challenge - 4 possibilities with each instance.

Alternatively, maybe it's a rotator like the circlejerk puzzle, but following the theme of rabbits, instead of continuing on the line you're already on, you change directions when the page rotates.
This would mean backtracking in a couple of places when you have one or 2 letters between 2 inversions, and could also be confusing when the rows/columns became uneven.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:08 am
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GreenWindmill
Decorated

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Midlands, UK

Ok, finally caught up on this - sped through some puzzles and been banging my head on my desk for days at others but now I'm seeing these damn blocks in my sleep.

I'm not too hot on complicated ciphers (these tend to have been the head banging puzzles) so I probably won't have much of value to add but that's not going to stop me wasting everyone's time with rambling posts.

I can see a strong argument for the use of either a
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
P******R
cipher or a repeat (of sorts) of the circle cipher. Neither of which I've been able to achieve so far.

My thoughts on the circle cipher (which may well be idiotic) are that if the letters are replaced with the circle equivalent in whichever orientation the letter is in, it will then give a grid similar to the one which we have already passed. This may then lend itself to solving in the same way, although whether any flipping/rotating would be necessary I don't know. I'd expect the rabbits to then act as directional indicators.

Unfortunately that's a fair bit of work with a lot of different avenues of exploration and I so far haven't come up with anything. If there's a good reason why it can't work, somebody please tell me so I can stop wasting my time!

PS - haven't seen any posts which mention this specific idea having been tried/suggested/discounted but my eyes have taken on a glazed quality of late so apologies if I'm repeating somebody elses work...
_________________
Mmm... Sacrilicious.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:21 am
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StarkRavingMad
Decorated

Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 250

DrNewcenstein wrote:

First, the key is hidden in plain sight. It must be. The complexity of it has already been noted several times, and it seems rather odd to have such a stronger encryption than the others (though admittedly, one must wade through miles of rice paddies to be suddenly met by the Great Wall of China).

Second, this is "it". The end that no one can pass. GG is laughing at the show, hence his message about moving into the shadows. He's done with Torment and will work on another one.


My theory is that Torment was largely set up to lead people to this cipher. I think he's pretty proud of the block puzzle and wants someone to crack it, and was disappointed that no one cracked it at the geocaching site. Making us wade through all the other puzzles to get to it makes us invested enough in finishing the damn thing to keep banging our heads on it, instead of just throwing up our hands and walking away. Everything else was the appetizer, this is the main course.

Quote:
Third, the guy with the gas mask saying look behind you is the true path, and the clues are those Hebrew glyphs no one translated Laughing


I know you're joking, but I've wondered if there is more there. "Look behind you (u)" is a fairly well-known joke of a cipher, and using the letters that are "behind u" leads to the worms page with him laughing at you, which could be the joke. But it seems odd to include that extra step, when all the other dead ends have been identifiable as such due to the lack of a key input box (is this true? Did the TV page have an input box? Don't remember.) It seems to me like that message should be crackable, and we haven't yet. We also got to gas mask via a weird leap of logic, which indicates to me he isn't the right way to go -- but he could end up being a further step down the path. In other words, maybe the solution key word that leads to him is from a puzzle AFTER the blocks, in which case if we cracked him we could skip this hellacious block puzzle entirely. But that's all speculation and it is possible that it is just a dead end.

But how funny would it be if we cracked the block puzzle and the keyword was the one that led to gas mask guy Razz

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:17 pm
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Or to the TV, which does have an input box. Laughing

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:59 pm
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tripitaka
Boot

Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 35

GreenWindmill wrote:


I can see a strong argument for the use of either a P******R cipher or a repeat (of sorts) of the circle cipher. Neither of which I've been able to achieve so far.


Others have suggested Playfair (a few clues certainly do point that way) but nobody seems to have done any good with it. I personally gave up as soon as I saw all the double letters hehe.

I believe that shadow cipher substitution (presumably including insertion according to displayed orientation) was one of the first things which was tried (bear in mind this thing has been going on for months!), which is why I didn't make the effort, but maybe the early birds gave up too early, who knows! (throw in an extra ROT or Vignere or reversal and these things can easily be missed first time around). Later suggestions have become more exotic, maybe it is time for those that have any energy left (which excludes me ha) to revisit some of the earlier approaches !

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:39 pm
Last edited by tripitaka on Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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tripitaka
Boot

Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 35

StarkRavingMad wrote:
My theory is that Torment was largely set up to lead people to this cipher. I think he's pretty proud of the block puzzle and wants someone to crack it, and was disappointed that no one cracked it at the geocaching site. Making us wade through all the other puzzles to get to it makes us invested enough in finishing the damn thing to keep banging our heads on it, instead of just throwing up our hands and walking away.


That makes good sense

StarkRavingMad wrote:
But how funny would it be if we cracked the block puzzle and the keyword was the one that led to gas mask guy


Not very!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:44 pm
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corgipower
Boot

Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 12

the clown page also has a submit answer box.

as is stated, dead ends are undetectable. to not put a submit answer box on a dead end would make it detectable.

however, i think that the path that led to the blocks has been the most logical of paths, and therefore the blocks are what we need to attack.

i also have absolutely no ideas at the moment as to how to decipher them.
_________________
more on torment and the blocks

dog training


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:21 pm
Last edited by corgipower on Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Clown page? What wrong answer at what puzzle leads to that one?

While I agree the Blocks seems to be the logical path, logic also dictates that the best way to torment someone with this puzzle is to lay out a "logical path" that leads to a dead end, and make the "illogical path" the right one.

That said, I've been separating letters according to orientation and putting the results through Playfair, Caesarian Shift, and Vigenere ciphers.

Once in a while I hit a stray word or two ("Love", and a couple others - I'm at work right now goofing off and all that stuff is on my PC at home) but the ending triple-double is throwing me off. Maybe it's not one word with 3 doubles at the end, but rather two words, possibly even one mispelled on purpose?

I've also been adding the letters that are turned to the right to the list of letters that are rightside-up, and the same Ciphers produce random words and "almost" words (jumbled, one excess letter in the middle, etc).

I've nearly got the "which way is up" letters sussed - the X is wider at the bottom than the top, so that's easy to spot. All that remains is the H, I, and O, which do not appear to have any easily-recognizable traits such as thicker tips on the bottom like the X, or thinner sides for the O (even if it did, you're still stuck guessing which way is up).

One more argument in favor of Gas Mask Guy instead of Block Girl - there's no music on the "rosary" page. Silent Night, anyone?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:31 am
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SuperSlug
Veteran


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 74

DrNewcenstein wrote:
What wrong answer at what puzzle leads to that one?

Well, remember that any answer can be input at any time. So the answer that led us to "gas mask man" may very well be a future answer (I do not however, believe that it was the answer to the candle page.)

As for the "clown" : one of the things you deciphered along the way were lyrics to a song. The title of the song will lead you to the clown.


DrNewcenstein wrote:
I've nearly got the "which way is up" letters sussed - the X is wider at the bottom than the top, so that's easy to spot. All that remains is the H, I, and O, which do not appear to have any easily-recognizable traits such as thicker tips on the bottom like the X, or thinner sides for the O (even if it did, you're still stuck guessing which way is up).
By comparing to the original image of the block display the positions of H, I and O should be discernible. All the O's are in the upright position (the bottom is a little pointy). H's and I's are either upright or turned so their bottoms are on the left (H's are slightly smaller on the top and the bottom serifs are more blurry than the top ones; I's have some useful woodgrain marks, small roundish spot at mid lower right next to the letter and a diagonal line that crosses the upper left corner of the block).

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:49 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Ooooohhhh the clown is e-ville!

The Morse Code changes!

I think the whole message changes from day to day!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:44 pm
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Question:

How does one go about establishing what type of cipher is used on a given puzzle, aside from the obvious things like Gold Bug, the circles?

Do you first start with a theory (Vigenere, Caesarian, ROT, etc) and then try to form a cohesive structure?

How do you develop a passphrase/key word for those ciphers requiring them?

I've run the blocks, the clown, and the gasmask through everything at Rumkin, all with various theoretical keys, yet I'm not seeing anything concrete.

Just wondering how those that plodded through it without reading the trail left by others actually did it.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:37 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Ok, Clown boy doesn't change at 6:00. Bummer.

The message he speaks is:
"Hello. You don't know me. I want to play a game.
There are ways to win this hidden all around you.
Watch your step.
Hurry. You have until 6 on the clock.
Let the game begin."

I waited until the clock read 06:00:00 and nothing happened. I Submitted an answer, which was wrong, then came back and nothing was different.

Also, that's not Morse under the clock, it's a font called Capsule-3. The letters spell UMEK.


Some interesting stats about Clown Face:
The first letter section has 100 letters, 10 of which are orange.
The first number section has 50 numbers, 5 of which are orange.
The second letter section has 250 letters, 25 of which are orange.
The second number section has 100 numbers, but only 9 are orange.

It may be a dead end, but maybe not?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:07 am
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SuperSlug
Veteran


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 74

DrNewcenstein wrote:
It may be a dead end, but maybe not?


I know at least two different submits will bring you to that page. So, probably not our path.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:42 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32

Yeah, seems so. Then again, maybe these dead ends can lend some sort of insight into the Blocks? It's not unreasonable to assume that GG used this same encoding elsewhere, since there were a few Vigeneres and Caesars.

While the dead ends are supposed to unsolvable, and some are solvable up to a point, I do get the feeling that something in the trail behind us holds the clue to the Blocks.

I went back through the "path" up to the blocks and there are only 2 Hebrew graphics before you get to the Blocks (I thought there were 3 before, but I was mistooken).

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:06 am
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DrNewcenstein
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 32


Counter-intelligence

I think the blocks may actually be the end, as it's one of only 2 pages in the puzzle that have a stat counter (my Privacy settings block it, so I get a Privacy Alert icon on this page and the starting page).

Dang, I was hoping this was a dead end Laughing

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:32 pm
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