unforum

[SpaceBass]

This discussion has started to become interesting. However, I propose we revisit the earlier request to clarify exactly what is being discussed. We've started to get some specificity in complaints but toward whom are these complaints to be directed?

I see a few options, which I'll run down in order of priority.

1. Unfiction. The site, the forums, everything related is owned solely by me, SpaceBass. Any position that could conceivably be called "officially" that of Unfiction, would by definition have to be mine. When we say "Unfiction does x," are we talking about me? If not, then I'm not sure any of the following options matter. If so, I'm just about always open to conversation with anyone who contacts me.

2. Unfiction Admin Team. Me, ScarpeGrosse, vpisteve, Gupfee, jamesi, Giskard, and imbri. I rely heavily on their opinions but I think they'll agree in general that I reserve final say about site policy. Are we talking about the Admins? Still me.

3. Unfiction Moderators. Made up of a group of singularly outstanding players who contribute more to internal community development and harmony than you can imagine. Are we talking about them? They pretty much answer to the Admins. Again, me.

4. Unfiction Terms of Service. Okay, again these are my call in the end but hey, they can be up for negotiation. The thing is that there really isn't very much to them except, "don't be a creep," and "we're out of game." I've heard arguments against both concepts but nothing truly persuasive so far.

5. Unfiction User Community. This is pretty much what is left*, what I have thus far assumed to be the subject of this thread, and curiously enough the least deserving of criticism. The simple fact is that the community at large is comprised of a group of thousands of individual people, with individual goals, desires, tactics, ethics, values, and morals. In general, it is a surprisingly large group of very diverse members who manage not only to coexist in a civil fashion but can together be incredibly effective at performing seemingly insurmountable tasks. This ability, however, does not denote nor convey any sort of intelligence nor guiding principle to the group as a whole.

Yes, I believe in such a thing as group identity but ultimately every choice we make is our own. I am intimately aware of the fact that we are the chaos in chaotic fiction.

So what are we talking about here? One or more of the above, or perhaps something I missed? These questions are not directed at any particular individual or poster in this thread.

Categories 1 through 4 are something that may conceivably be addressed if we can get to the root of these problems. Category 5 is not only undeserved but futile. Even were it possible to convince a large group of a diverse population to agree unanimously on a concept, mobilizing action on that agreement is unlikely, again for the above reason that the group is comprised wholly of individuals. How do you not only convince but motivate every single one of those people, who have completely different backgrounds, desires, and goals to do anything, let alone mobilize behind some philosophical concept?

This is not to deride the value of this discussion insofar as the concepts are interesting. However, I think it is both unlikely and unfair to harbor any expectation that the group, the community, change or conform in response to it. The community is an aggregate; it does not think, it does not live any more than does the community that resides in your local neighborhood or in your home town. How can it be expected to respond in corpus to any kind of demand, whether it appeal to emotion or to logic, no matter how justified? What, exactly, can you expect from it?

*Option 6, unlisted above, would have been Specific Unfiction Users. Other mechanisms are in place to deal with individual complaints from forum users and this did not seem germane to the topic.

[Rogi Ocnorb]

[HaxanMike]

[Rekidk]

*Rekidk chews on a and watches the conversation tennis-match style.*

[FLmutant]

Only a matter of time until I jumped in here.

[Lovek]

I'm not sure I have anything overwhelmingly insightful to add, but thought I could at least share my experience.

I lurked uF long before I joined. I tried to play several ARGs and quit each one. And my reason for doing so wasn't really negativity from O'Skoo players (like most of the people in this discussion), but because of the "process."

As has been mentioned by imbri and a few others, there is a pattern of gameplay set in place by many uFers. And while that pattern does make the game move along more smoothly... it's not especially fun for new folks.

I tried to play at least 3 ARGs and left because I never felt I got the chance to explore and poke around before someone said "Found the pattern; here's the solve; next puzzle please."

It always seemed like the work (and fun) had already been done for me, which led to three sub-feelings:

* The feeling that I was always behind in what was going on.
* The feeling of being lost due to not knowing the patterns.
* The feeling that when someone did say "Here's the solve, next puzzle," it meant that anything I as a n00b had to say didn't really matter, and that my opinion wasn't being heard.

These three things can quickly and unintentionally be mistaken as negativity and elitism from the other players.

When I joined WIBS (the first game I stuck with), I poked around on the forums for awhile and played along. But when the uFers started trickling in after a couple of days, I nearly quit. I thought the fun would quickly be sucked out of the game... for me anyway. (I made my displeasure known on the WIBS forums. See Rowan mention it here.)

Fortunately, I stuck around, got to know people, and formed a better understanding of uF.

So the solution to what I see as the problems? Reminds me of a joke: What do you get when you cross an elephant and a rhinoceros?

Eliphino ('El-if-I-know)

Guess it comes down to two things.

PMs need to create games that can't be solved with those patterns. Hardcore players need to stick around those games for awhile before abandoning them.

In short, more creativity and open-mindedness all around.

And sense that seems to be what everyone is striving for anyway, it shouldn't be a problem for long.

I know it's gotten better in the time I've been here. Or maybe I'm just used to it. Or maybe there's just something special in those brownies...

[vpisteve]

This all causes me to just toss something in again, as I'm just brimming with milk and brownies and fear I will asplode. One of the coolest things about ARGs is the Thrill Of Discovery. Poking around, and playing with things, and shaking them, sniffing them, touching them, seeing if they float, stick to walls, whatever.

Whenever a "vet" player points something out to someone new like "nah, don't bother entering those coordinates into google maps to see if it makes a picture because there's not an adequate modifier to make the puzzle effectively solvable without destegging the downloadable desktop image first and overlaying it to decode the binary which then probably won't be morse because this sort of thing is just very bad form and these PMs would know better because in the beast everything was rosy and the glasses i'm using don't account for the summer solstace which we've already checked and trouted everyone mercilessly on....." you....

STEAL SOMEONE'S FUN!

So, all you veteran players out there, and you know who you are, I'd like to just gently and lovingly say the following: Resist the urge to strut your ARGSkilz and shaddup already (especially if you're on another forum with a bunch of "new ARGers"), sit back and just enjoy watching the thrill and wonder from someone's first discovery of text hidden in the source.

In fact, I'm now writing this down as my 13th Rule of Life: BIG MOUTHS STEAL FUN.

There, I've said it.

But......nobody reads the Meta forum. :/

[aliendial]

What he ^ said. I loved the front lines. But there's only so much room. And I've had the privilege. And yes with more experience you can find yourself judging too much and second guessing, and lecturing rather than sharing, which sucks the fun out. Better to shut up and enjoy vicariously and perhaps file the rough edges off the over-enthusiastic. IMHO

...joins rekidk in the stands, munching brownies.

[krystyn]

I you, Steve!

[Rogi Ocnorb]

I thought Lovek's points about creativity and open-mindedness were very good.
Guess I'll just join the bleachers crowd (After sending a sample to the lab) because it seems we've run out of new ideas to include in games that put everyone on a level playing field. Don't know how long the vicarious thrill will last, though.

[Rekidk]

Well, one thing that can be done to allow everyone to be a part is to provide different players with different pieces of the puzzle. The example that comes to mind in my experience is in DoomSkull when everyone was sent little pictures (and they were scattered on websites), but everyone needed to pool their pictures together to solve the puzzle.

In other words, the sense of involvement of everyone comes from a requirement by the PMs that the players work together.

Another good example of this (in my experience) was in MeiGeist when we pooled our resources to create a video to get Eva out of her trance. We collected pictures from IG sites and of ourselves, created audio clips, compiled video... It was easy for anyone--newbie or veteran--to contribute.

Edit: Er, yeah, looking back I think I misinterpreted what everyone was talking about. Ah well.