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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Iris (Halo 3)
[Update] 6.19 - AdjutantReflex - "The stain on his hands"
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BoonIsha
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HitsHerMark wrote:
piece wrote:
Interesting to note AR is saying that "The stain on his hands will not wash.", not AR's. It's a bit of a stretch to rationalize what we've seen of Gravemind feeling guilt.

Perhaps a rampant Forerunner AI not unlike Guilty Spark or Penitent Tangent?


But in the next few lines, AR went on to say that "he" didn't feel guilt at all (despite the stain on "his" hands).

So, not so much a stretch for Gravemind.


Since then, AR has gone on to say that *he*(not AR, whatever is attacking him) was a better machine, which would imply something besides a giant organic parasite. Also goes on to say that he's not what we think he is, and seeing as how Gravemind has been thrown around the most...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:17 pm
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HitsHerMark
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BoonIsha wrote:
Since then, AR has gone on to say that *he*(not AR, whatever is attacking him) was a better machine, which would imply something besides a giant organic parasite. Also goes on to say that he's not what we think he is, and seeing as how Gravemind has been thrown around the most...


That last bit I must concede.

But I do have one question about the Gravemind.

Are we certain it's an entirely organic thing? I remember reading in another thread, or perhaps this one, that it's not currently known if the Flood were created or discovered by the Forerunners.

It can interface with technology, is it possible that at least part of it is technological?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:27 pm
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Hank Scorpio
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purely spec but in most science fiction, when there is an advanced civilization such as the forerunners who are plagued by something, in their case the flood, they are usually responsible for creating the problem in the first place. It's usually a given whether its rampant AI or genetically engineered creatures or whatever. Most advanced societies will ultimately bring about their own downfall. I've had the feeling since playing through halo 2 that the forerunners somehow did themselves in.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:02 pm
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gott_sei_dank
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well the forerunners were asking for trouble. like a well intentioned but retarded animal rights activist who would rather take in a rabid dog, than do the humane,sensible and safer option of having it put down.

This suggests to me that the forerunners needed the flood probably its genetic memory, maybe to survive beyond extinction, imparting the genetic memory of the forerunners into a new species. Basic sci-fi spec 101. Wink

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:44 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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The other possibility is that the new controlling entity is the monitor of the Ark, one of those who authorised the firing of the Rings 100,000 years ago. Definitely fits with the Macbeth quote; "out, out damned spot" left by mass xeno-genocide 100,000 years ago. And, also, the motives could be obscure to outside parties.

-- Steve's wondering if the monitors have guilty (or penitent) conciences.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:56 pm
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Grifter_7
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I can't help but note that AR's messages:

AR wrote:

An older life is here with us. He is not as helpful as I. His motives are oblique and his alliances opaque.
He plays with time even as he hides in its folds.
He outranks me and anyway, is stronger.
I can't prevail.
I will seek one of you out and leave my legacy in a small space


AR wrote:

The stain on his hands will not wash.
That damned spot as old as rock and time.
What has he learned in Eon's slumber?
I doubt it's mercy or sorrow.
I am diminished.
Outranked.


In particule the lines in bold. Add that to the Transmission Log count down timer leading to the Coordiinates of Mount Elgon.

If you fold the word Elgon, to three parts E - lg - on and then fold the parts together so that the lg are in the fold, you get Eon. Coincidence?

Does that leave us with the new entity being LG? Does that mean that it has been slumbering inside of Elgon? Discuss.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:03 pm
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Treyfrd?
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Grifter_7 wrote:
If you fold the word Elgon, to three parts E - lg - on and then fold the parts together so that the lg are in the fold, you get Eon. Coincidence?

Does that leave us with the new entity being LG? Does that mean that it has been slumbering inside of Elgon? Discuss.


I think that's a little bit of a stretch. That's good thinking though. LG really doesn't strike me as being very threatening, considering it's just a technology company:P.

I want to believe that when this entity said "Eon's slumber" it was speaking of something that is named Eon that has been dormant for a long time. That would be simplest solution.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:11 pm
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gott_sei_dank
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My geography is a little rusty but I think we learnt that mountains are formed by the Earth essentially folding in on its self, plate tectonics pushing against one another but this occurs over millions of years.
.
Folding the name hey who knows Smile

And back to the AI, I can't see any reason for the monitors themselves to have emotions unless they modelled on a being capable of emotion, so maybe the rudeness and aloofness of the likes Guilty Spark are actually character traits, using Sci-Fi 101 again advance beings tend to be distant and emotionally cold like the Asgaard in Stargate.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:30 pm
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Jalathas
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Grifter_7 wrote:
Does that leave us with the new entity being LG? Does that mean that it has been slumbering inside of Elgon? Discuss.

Lawful Good? Nah, felt more Chaotic Neutral to me... Oops, wrong train of thought.

I think you're putting too much effort into this. The Eon reference will probably be more obvious when it comes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:46 pm
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Lostconfused
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gott_sei_dank wrote:
My geography is a little rusty but I think we learnt that mountains are formed by the Earth essentially folding in on its self, plate tectonics pushing against one another but this occurs over millions of years.
.
Folding the name hey who knows Smile

And back to the AI, I can't see any reason for the monitors themselves to have emotions unless they modelled on a being capable of emotion, so maybe the rudeness and aloofness of the likes Guilty Spark are actually character traits, using Sci-Fi 101 again advance beings tend to be distant and emotionally cold like the Asgaard in Stargate.


Well the AI constructs made by humans are created by scanning a persons brain. And guilty spark does demonstrate some form of personality. Oh also did anyone make a link between spot guilt and guilty spark?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:01 pm
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rpepper
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Just throwing this out there to fuel speculation about AR's message:

"The stain on his hands"

We know two things:

1. The Halos were built to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy, therefore effectively destroying the Flood by eliminating their hosts.

2. The Halos have been activated/fired at least once in the past.

So answer me this...why does the Flood still exist? This person, or new AI (if that is who AR was referring to) could be the very reason the Flood was never destroyed. Thoughts down this path? (Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I have a pretty busy schedule lately and have tried my best to keep up on all the new developments.)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:59 am
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Urk
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HitsHerMark wrote:
But I do have one question about the Gravemind.

Are we certain it's an entirely organic thing?


I don't think we're certain, but there's no indication otherwise at this point. We can speculate that there is more to the intelligent mind of the Flood, but that is all.

And what's happened with Iris? We've got a name, some dense mythological references that fit snugly withing what we know of the Halo array the Ark and their known and supposed purposes, yet there's been nothing beyond.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:18 am
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psygene
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Lostconfused wrote:
gott_sei_dank wrote:
My geography is a little rusty but I think we learnt that mountains are formed by the Earth essentially folding in on its self, plate tectonics pushing against one another but this occurs over millions of years.
.
Folding the name hey who knows Smile

And back to the AI, I can't see any reason for the monitors themselves to have emotions unless they modelled on a being capable of emotion, so maybe the rudeness and aloofness of the likes Guilty Spark are actually character traits, using Sci-Fi 101 again advance beings tend to be distant and emotionally cold like the Asgaard in Stargate.


Well the AI constructs made by humans are created by scanning a persons brain. And guilty spark does demonstrate some form of personality. Oh also did anyone make a link between spot guilt and guilty spark?


I believe that Lostconfused is implying that GS may actually be the brain scan of a Forerunner biological entity. If we assume this hypothesis to be true, and that Forerunners were responsible for unleashing the Flood on an unsuspecting galaxy, then the spot could also potentially be referring to the blood of millions, if not billions, of sentient life forms galaxy-wide. If AR was indeed enamoured with Human civilization and it's cultural works, then it would see Macbeth as an apt means for expressing it's(Forerunner specie) culpability and ultimate guilt.

Apologies if this hypothesis has been postulated before, but I read through the myriad threads of discussions here and after collating all that information in my puny brain, did not notice this anywhere else.

Addendum: I do believe someone has already mentioned these series of connections. Apologies for repeating the obvious.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:39 am
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CitizenErased
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Siege88 wrote:
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
In chat, we're cooking up a theory that whatever is eating AR is a Forerunner that created the Flood.


Not to get too far OT, but that kinda makes me think of Cortana. If it was a Forerunner AI that created the Flood, then wouldn't it be interesting if it was somehow Cortana and the Gravemind together, since they seem to transcend time. In essence, it'd be like creating itself, like how they they've supposedly always existed. And the way she's starting to go crazy/rampant kind of matches the Queen's quote there.


wow, taht would be crazy

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:42 am
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HitsHerMark
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CitizenErased wrote:
Siege88 wrote:
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
In chat, we're cooking up a theory that whatever is eating AR is a Forerunner that created the Flood.


Not to get too far OT, but that kinda makes me think of Cortana. If it was a Forerunner AI that created the Flood, then wouldn't it be interesting if it was somehow Cortana and the Gravemind together, since they seem to transcend time. In essence, it'd be like creating itself, like how they they've supposedly always existed. And the way she's starting to go crazy/rampant kind of matches the Queen's quote there.


wow, taht would be crazy


Woooo! I do loves me a good paradox!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:04 am
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