unforum

[rose]

I think I'm getting it. So is the term "ARG" obsolete now? ( Yes, I noticed the title of Space's article is undefining ARGs. I'm quick. )

[BubbleBoy]

I rather like that this discussion is taking place. In my eyes it means that the genre is moving forward, as it should.

I think that you can split most fiction into two catagories - determined and undertermined.

Under the determined catagory you can insert anything that has a pre-determined beginning, middle and end (plays, tv shows, ballet, book, etc.). While things can go wrong while the performance is taking place (the sound system goes out, an actor forgets his/her line, the power to the tv goes out, a dancer falls, some words are not spelled correctly in the book) and the audience may or may not react to these occurances, thus making the experience different from one night to the next, the story is still the same.

Undetermined would include examples where the story is not "fixed" - the players still have some control of the story determined by the actions taken during the interactive (player ---> author ----> player) elements of the game - and thus the story, not the performance, has the ability to change (although, from my time spent researching this genre, is not one of the tasks performed by the puppetmasters to make it look like undetermined actions were in fact determined?).

IMHO, not all forms of fiction would fall under the "chaotic fiction" definition.

BubbleBoy
Kyle Stallone

[rose]

Yes, this determined and undetermined question is one I've been considering for a while.

I think that Space's definition using a continuum of authorship means that even if there is no audience part in the "authorship" of the story - the story can still be chaotic fiction. The graph shows the architect on one side and the audience the other, so audience involvement in authorship isn't required for a work to be chaotic fictio.

This is one reason I brought up the Halo3 game. In that game, the players have absolutely no impact on the story ( I think there were some early bungie.net forum posts, but those didn't seem to have any impact on the story) The players are going through the steps set out by the architect of the game. Yet, I think under the definition, Halo3 fits in as Chaotic Fiction.

As for live performances, I don't think they are chaotic fiction because they aren't persistent. I was fitting things like live performances by considering the performers as the audience. (not the audience watching the performance...) So that say a play by Shakespeare has Shakespeare as the architect and the performers (and anyone involved in the production) as the audience. In that sense, the audience and the architect share authorship of the performance.

[BubbleBoy]

[rose]

I don't know, I think my brain broke.

The graph I was talking about is here

from this page of Space's article.

[Agent Lex]

[ScarpeGrosse]

[Rekidk]

So, mystery dinner theater... Chaotic fiction? Possibly even ARG?

[Mikeyj]

[Rekidk]

Hm... But is LARPing Chaotic Fiction? (Probably not an ARG, because you're playing a character that's not you, but... Chaotic Fiction doesn't limit itself in that sense, does it?)

I dunno, I'm almost ready to just say, "Play it, who cares what it's called." Almost.

[rose]

I don't think that Mystery Dinner Theater is Chaotic Fiction because it isn't persistent. Probably the same thing for the Rocky Picture Horror Show.

maybe we need a clearer idea of what persistent means?

What do you guys think about my favorite browser based game, Kingdom of Loathing? Chaotic Fiction?

[Rekidk]

[Agent Lex]

[rose]

Space mentioned in conversation that in Chaotic Fiction the game had to be persistent. I'm not sure where that is in his ground-breaking article on the subject though. I can't find it in there.... And I'm not sure what "persistent" means in this context.

I'm hoping if we use his name enough times in this thread he will eventually materialize here.

[catherwood]