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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Chasing the Wish » CTW: General/Updates
Info and Spec: Restore them to what they once were
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MageSteff
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Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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Info and Spec: Restore them to what they once were

Shadowtalk/Turingprinciple said we needed to restore the numbered ones to what they once were... I think I know who they are now, and what they once were.... Ursulla has given us information that they mane be called the Nine, but there are actually Seven.
Learning this was not an easy task, because I had become a bit paranoid. To those of you that I had suspicions about please accept my humble apologies, I was wrong.

Let me aslo say that I would not have discovered this information without the helpful insights of good people like Blush, Ursulla, Valas, Geist, The 42guy, Laz, Ormus and others too numerous to name.

People we are talking about the Seven Virtues, which have become the Seven Sins.
http://www.rushman.org/seven/

Humility has become Pride

Generosity has become Greed (Avarice)

Love has become Envy

Kindness has become Anger (Wrath)

Self-control has become Lust

Faith (Temperance) has become Gluttony

Zeal has become Sloth.

I think we need to return the seven to their virtuous state.
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Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:07 am
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Caterpillar
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Magesteff wrote:
Shadowtalk/Turingprinciple said we needed to restore the numbered ones to what they once were... I think I know who they are now, and what they once were....

It's the Nine that must be restored not the Numbered Ones.
Reference:
Quote:
Magesteff: How can I help restore the missing pieces?
turingprinciple: Yes I believe the "nine" must be restored. That is what Dale has taught me.

Quote:
synthasiadale: After placing the three objects before her, she turned at last to me and said, "You came seeking a way to find that which you have lost."
synthasiadale: Like the one before me, I have left a means for you to find the way. You must believe. In belief there is power, more than you can even know.
synthasiadale: The nine can move between but have lost their way
synthasiadale: Restore them to what they were and you shall be rewarded.


Magesteff wrote:
Ursulla has given us information that they mane be called the Nine, but there are actually Seven.


Who are actually Seven?The Numbered Ones or The Nine?
Can you point to this......I must have missed it. Smile

IMO The Nine are still good guys....or at least "better" guys....so I feel the Nine don't have much to do with the Seven Deadly Sins....but that opinion might change when I see the info Ursualla has that I must have missed.

I was digging yesterday thinking of the 3-"o"-7 (The Numbered Ones) as being 3 "of" 7...........like "Top 'o' the morning to ya." And thought maybe the 3rd of the Seven Deadly Sins, but haven't yet seen a possible connection.

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:14 am
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Valas
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cemgate2002 wrote:


I was digging yesterday thinking of the 3-"o"-7 (The Numbered Ones) as being 3 "of" 7...........like "Top 'o' the morning to ya." And thought maybe the 3rd of the Seven Deadly Sins, but haven't yet seen a possible connection.

~cem


3 of 7 = 7 of 9.
They're Borg and therefore the enemy. Razz

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:59 am
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Myssfitz
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Re: Info and Spec: Restore them to what they once were

Magesteff wrote:
Shadowtalk/Turingprinciple said we needed to restore the numbered ones to what they once were... I think I know who they are now, and what they once were.... Ursulla has given us information that they mane be called the Nine, but there are actually Seven.
Learning this was not an easy task, because I had become a bit paranoid. To those of you that I had suspicions about please accept my humble apologies, I was wrong.

Let me aslo say that I would not have discovered this information without the helpful insights of good people like Blush, Ursulla, Valas, Geist, The 42guy, Laz, Ormus and others too numerous to name.

People we are talking about the Seven Virtues, which have become the Seven Sins.
http://www.rushman.org/seven/

Humility has become Pride

Generosity has become Greed (Avarice)

Love has become Envy

Kindness has become Anger (Wrath)

Self-control has become Lust

Faith (Temperance) has become Gluttony

Zeal has become Sloth.

I think we need to return the seven to their virtuous state.


I could have sworn I posted this, but I can't find it, so here it goes again. If this is somehow a repeat, sorry.

I like this. We have to restore the Nine back to their good counterparts. I
found something called "The Essential Enneagram". It incorporates the Seven Deadly Sins. And it has many paths....

Quote:
How to Discover Your Type
Type One: The Perfectionist
Type Two: The Giver
Type Three: The Performer
Type Four: The Romantic
Type Five: The Observer
Type Six: The Loyal Skeptic
Type Seven: The Epicure
Type Eight: The Protector
Type Nine: The Mediator

(For example: It's one of the seven) The Perfectionist's Driving Energy:
ANGER, RESENTMENT, AND GUILT at things that are wrong or that don't meet high standards.

and the Keys to Path of Development

• Understand that correctness and rightness are not part of natural order.
• Compassion for the self.
• Recognize and minimize the internal critical voice.
• Allow time to relax, to play, and to accept yourself as you are.
Quote:
ttp://www.authenticenneagram.com/


That would be funny if this is all about us "restoring" ourselves. Everyone's
true self (including mine) has really reared their ugly heads.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:30 am
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Caterpillar
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Re: Info and Spec: Restore them to what they once were

Myssfitz wrote:
I like this. We have to restore the Nine back to their good counterparts. I found something called "The Essential Enneagram". It incorporates the Seven Deadly Sins. And it has many paths....


The only question I have about this line of thinking is that it seems to me that The Nine haven't shown their "bad counterparts", so how do we know that we have to restore them to "good"? Restoration may not take the form of turning bad into good again. In Dale's vision Sarah said they have lost their way, and we must restore them. Maybe they are just plain "lost" as in can't remember the Knowledge that was once theirs. I don't know........lol

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:04 pm
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dmax
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cemgate2002 wrote:
It's the Nine that must be restored not the Numbered Ones.

Thanks. I thought that the statement was wrong, but didn' have the reference handy. Didn't want to waste time down a path based on something that wasn't quoted correctly to us.
Quote:
I was digging yesterday thinking of the 3-"o"-7 (The Numbered Ones) as being 3 "of" 7...........like "Top 'o' the morning to ya." And thought maybe the 3rd of the Seven Deadly Sins, but haven't yet seen a possible connection.


i like this. Particularly since it was explicit to us that the middle character was an o and not a 0. It's a mistake to assume that it's a 3 digit number like 801. Nice reminder.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:59 pm
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Myssfitz
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OK. Now I am confused.

The Nine are the Guides then? And the Numbered Ones, (3-o-7, DEG's) are just many?

So, then if the Nine are the Guides, then the Enneagram Essentials would make more sense.

Quote:
Type One: The Perfectionist
Type Two: The Giver
Type Three: The Performer
Type Four: The Romantic
Type Five: The Observer
Type Six: The Loyal Skeptic
Type Seven: The Epicure
Type Eight: The Protector
Type Nine: The Mediator


The Guides would be leading us to our real selves and how to deal with our personality type. If they could remember. If they weren't lost. So we have to guide the Guides back to their normal selves and in turn, they are guiding us to find our normal selves. (One big circle. Continuing and never ending). The Ennegram Essentials also gives us guidelines to deal with our personal sin.
So the Guides are trying to get the people of Aglaura (Tatarus) to realize their positve potential. Dale and JD have been set on the right path. Hence, their "old self" has died and they are working on their "new self". So would that make Digitalis Dale's "new" self (not literally. Since he met him) and Absinthe Bruce's "new" self? And then, if we stay with the plant theory, then Iris was JD's "new" self. Dale found Digitalis by finding himself, therefore he helped Digitalis find his way. That is why Dale recieved a message from Digitalis directly the other day and the rest of us just received a note signed by the guides only. (We have not chosen the right path and restored our own guide yet). The same would go for Bruce and JD. They found out their real selves and restored Absinthe and Iris. So Cem's thinking 3 of 7 would be true right now. The Numbered Ones have stopped 4 of the 7, for now. And 3 of 7 have been lost by the Numbered Ones.
DUH!! The Numbered One's are us, humans. 3-o-7 were supposed to be destroyed along with the island. But humans can never really be destroyed. Only the "bad" in us can be, if we so choose. The Numbered One's are the "dead" sin personalities who are protecting the secret of how to embrace the "goodness". They don't want anyone to leave the "bad" and go to the "good". So there are many Numbered Ones. TP mentioned the magicians of black magic, i.e. evil, as some of the Numbered Ones. There will always be Numbered Ones. We have to choose our path. Either the path to goodness or the path to evil. They can not technically exist together. Yes, I understand that no matter how "good" someone is, there is always the bad that sneaks out. But, in choosing the good, we continually strive to learn and deal with the bad and make it get smaller and smaller. If we choose the path of goodness, we learn to control the bad parts within us.
Whew! My head is hurting again. Very Happy
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Well, Moo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:51 pm
Last edited by Myssfitz on Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:03 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Caterpillar
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The Nine are not the Guides.

The Nine are The Nine.
The Guides are The Guides (They number more than nine)
The Numbered Ones have been called DEGs by us and now have a new name 3-O-7 (And also number more than nine)

Hope this helps.
Very Happy
~cem

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:57 pm
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Myssfitz
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cemgate2002 wrote:
The Nine are not the Guides.

The Nine are The Nine.
The Guides are The Guides (They number more than nine)
The Numbered Ones have been called DEGs by us and now have a new name 3-O-7 (And also number more than nine)

Hope this helps.
Very Happy
~cem


Well, Moo.

No it doesn't help. I'm more confused than ever. Oh well. I got my philosophical thinking in today. Very Happy
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Well, Moo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:07 pm
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Myssfitz
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Now wait a minute. You have me more confused than ever. Cem, in your post here, you say that the Nine are also known as the Keepers of Immortality. But the Keepers of Immortality are the Numbered Ones. (I'm looking thru my TP chats now for the ref.).

I'll be back Very Happy

I'm back.

Quote:
turingprinciple (10:26:43 AM): I thought we were done with immortal.
turingprinciple (10:26:46 AM): the numebred ones guard the secret of immortality


So my original spec found here would be on track.

So to expand a little:

The Nine=Evil
The Guides=Good

The Nine (the Numbered Ones, the Keepers of Immortality, DEG's, & 3-o-7's) are the evil counterpart of the Guides.
The Guides are the good conterparts of the Nine, who have lost their way and have to be restored.
So really, the Nine and the Guides are one in the same. Just on opposite sides.
Which would bring in my second spec in this thread. Right now, Digitalis, Absinthe, and Iris (did anyone ever ask Phyllis if Iris had a hand deformity?) are back to being the Guides. They used to be part of the Nine, but they are restored. The Nine (which are many) want to keep evil around. The Guides are the opposite and are making us (along with themselves) realize what good is.

To put it simply, this is all about choosing good over evil. Dale was going to kill himself (evil, against God's law) and realized what his life would be like without his family. He realized all the good in his life, so he choose the right path, for him. And restored Digitalis from his evil opposite from the Nine.

cemgate wrote:
Science vs Old Ways)

The servants and followers of Avalon have no power here.Like the Nine, they shall lose their way and their power. You and your allies are but pawns on a board you cannot even see. The knowledge and power are the rightful reward of those who ascend. Now leave. There is nothing here for you."

(Avalon referencing the Old Ways becoming obsolete again, and Analogue being The New Order?)


So, the Nine (or evil) will lose their way and their power. The "good" will over power them. The knowledge and power are the rightful reward of those who ascend means that having the knowledge of good (and truly using it) will allow you to ascend on your own spiritual path and in time, wipe out the evil in you own heart. Back to good always winning out over evil. (And there's that heart reference from Great Water General- which since it is backwards would mean your heart is backwards, full of evil. Digitalis is also a heart drug. So Digitalis was backwards and now he found his way).

I can not think about this anymore. I am going around in circles.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:11 pm
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dashcat
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After rereading this post I realised I presented the info below as though it were cold hard fact. It is just my spec and though I think it's close to what is going on in the game it will probably turn out to be completely wrong.

The Nine are the Keepers of immortality. The numbered ones guard the secret of immortality.

The Nine are human. The Numbered Ones and the Guides serve those above. When you ask TP who "those above" are she answers "Humans". The Guides and the Numbered Ones serve the Nine.

I speced once that the Nine represent Science and Magic or Fact and Faith or Analogue and Avalon.


Quote:
At various times during history religion has represented science and once upon a time science and magic and religion were one and the same...as exemplified by Alchemy and stonehenge and the ancient religions of the Egyptians and the Myans and most ancient cultures. While thinking of the forces being balanced it occured to me that we might have 4 entities representing science on one side of the Nine and 4 entities representing magic on the other side of the Nine and thru history the scales have tipped according to the direction the NINTH member of the Nine leaned. This might explain how the Don and Trithemius could both be members of the Nine. The DEGs and Guides serve the two sides of human thought...fact and faith. The battle going on now is for the ninth memeber of the Nine...who is probabbly Dale...to sway his vote.


Myssfitz...there are Three groups. The Nine are seperate from the guides and the DEGs. The Guides and DEGs are the supernatural beings who serve the human NINE.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:37 pm
Last edited by dashcat on Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elijah Snow
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Here's some spec a la The Dark Crystal...

It has been said (by Dale me thinks) that many of these factions are different sides of the same coin or facits on a crystal.

We know the Don had a rune with an angelic glyph inscribed on it. From the research I did these glyphs seemed to have frequencies that when matched allow transformation to occur. All groups seem to be competing for acension.

What if in the end we must have the following in hand:
The Disk
The Caduceus
The Mask (yet to be identified)
The Nine Angelic Runes

With all of these in hand, we perform a ceremony that bonds two or all three of the goups (a la the end of The Dark Crystal) who are collectively "The Wish". "The Wish" will then send Dale back from whence he came.

Thoughts?

ES
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:44 pm
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Caterpillar
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Myssfitz wrote:
Now wait a minute. Cem, in your post here, you say that the Nine are also known as the Keepers of Immortality. But the Keepers of Immortality are the Numbered Ones. (I'm looking thru my TP chats now for the ref.).
I'll be back Very Happy
I'm back.
Quote:
turingprinciple (10:26:43 AM): I thought we were done with immortal.
turingprinciple (10:26:46 AM): the numebred ones guard the secret of immortality


The Keepers of Immortality
Quote:
cemgate: Do you know the nine?
turingprinciple: The keepers of Immortality.


The Numbered Ones
Quote:
pjhensley2: Where are the DEGs
turingprinciple: deg's the numbered ones?
turingprinciple: in the place that bears their name
pjhensley2: is the place that bears the numbered ones name a cemetery?
turingprinciple: They seek to contain knowledge of their existence.


In your conversation with TP, she says that the Numbered Ones guard the secret of immortality....not that they are The Keepers of it. (I looked for this chat but nothing came up in my search, is it one you didn't post?)
TP specifically calls the Nine "The Keepers of Immortality" and says that the Numbered Ones Seek to Contain knowledge of their existence. I assume they seek to contain the knowledge that they have the Power/Knowledge to become immortal. They want to guard their secret.....but I think it is The Nine who are (or once were) the Keepers of that knowledge.

~cem Very Happy

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:44 pm
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Myssfitz
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If their are three groups, where are their sites that we are supposed to be using to contact them?

Mythosphere has always been for the Guides.
Greywethers has always been undetermined, but with the login name of "friend"...
And 3-0-7 is not really the Numbered Ones. They are there to teach us about the Numbered Ones (give and get).

So could 3-o-7 be the "spritiual" Guards of the Secret of Immortality?
Could Greywethers be the human Nine (who are Keepers of Immortality)?
And Mythosphere are the "spiritual" Guides?

And I say this about Greywethers because TP has said that greywethers has contacted Dale and his helpers, but we have never really gotten any "official" contact. They have never really explained themselves. But TP has said that Greywethers is:

Quote:
turingprinciple (9:57:10 AM): Greywethers is a term most recently found in fantasy literature, I believe, where they are beings that can grant wishes.
.

So maybe they aren't human. And were do the Numbered One's, DEG's, whoever they are, fit into this? (Remember, they are not 3-o-7 because nomad at 3-o-7 wants to give us info on the Numbered Ones).

I don't know anymore now with all of that. Confused Thank goodness my little one is up so I can take a break from all of this.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:57 pm
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Valas
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Elijah Snow wrote:

The Mask (yet to be identified)

ES


The Mask is probably the Voodoo Mask that Wes has. Not sure if he has sold it already or not.

And I don't think that the Wish = DEGs + Guides combined.
Let's back it all up to what we knew before.

The Marzano's were once wealthy, then they went into decline, and they turned into a mob family.

It's very likely that one member of the Marzano family has been a member of the Nine. When the Nine lost control over the Wish, they lost their way, this allowed their servants the Guides and the DEGs to get uppity.

Now the DEGs clearly want to stop us from reforming the Nine.
What do the Guides want?? Unknown, possibly a return to the old status quo. It's possible that they were the favoured group of the Nine, and by helping us they wish to retain that favour.

Course their own agenda might start showing, when it turns out we can't a)kill or b)send the Don to jail, because they need him restored as well.
I definitely have the feeling that most of us, want to see his head on a pike.

It doesn't really help that the Arthurian Legends also seem to be intermixed in all of this. With Dale as Arthur, Diana as Guinevere, Sam as Galahad, Wes as Merlin, Bruce as Lancelot and the Don as Mordred. Sarah and Meaghan being Morgana le Fay and the Lady of the Lake respectively.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:04 pm
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